MTA Alternative to Amtrak's Empire Corridor Service

When Amtrak eliminated food service on its short-haul Empire Corridor trains, I vowed to search out alternatives to Amtrak's extremely high priced, no-frills service. And am I glad I did. I never knew what a pleasant alternative the MTA's Beacon station is for those who live in the Capital District, especially for weekend and holiday family excursions to the City.

Beacon Station is located on Route 9D, just a hop off of Interstate 84 (which interchanges nicely with the Thruway in Newburgh). The following is a comparison of the weekend/holiday service patterns for MTA and Amtrak.

A conservative estimate of 65-70 mph driving time to Beacon Station from Capital District Thruway entrances is as follows:

#25: 1'35"
#24: 1'29"
#23: 1'24"
#22: 1'18"

(After adding your travel time from your home to your nearest Thuryway entrance, compare your that total travel time with your local travel time to Rennselaer station.)

Of course driving to Beacon consumes gas and tolls. I'd budget about $15.00-$20.00 for that.

Then, when you arrive Beacon Station, all you need to park your car, and purchase your tickets is 10", tops. (I did it yesterday with my 5-year old son and 70 year-old mother in 4" minutes.)

Unlike Rennselaer, where parking ranges from $3.00 to $6.00 per day, parking is free an extremely plentiful at Beacon Station on weekends and holidays.

Southbound express trains from Beacon to NYG do the run on Weekends in 1' 13". Northbound express trains to Beacon from NYG do the run on Weekends in 1'18". (Compare this with Amtrak's 2'25" running times between ALB and NYP.) The MTA runs at least hourly, and unlike Amtrak, there is no need to fool around wasting time with Amtrak's absurd reservation system. At the Beacon Station, you will find ticket machines that are fast and simple to use; they accept cash, credit, and debit cards.

Yesterday, I paid the following round trip fares:

$23.00 for me;
$1.50 for my five year old son (under five is free);
$15.00 for my mother, who is a senior citizen.
$39.50 (total)

Needless to say, even with the $15.00 gas and tolls included, the cost of my MTA ticket was approximately a quarter of the cost that Amtrak would have charged me out of Albany. Also, my door-to-City and City-to-door travel times were actually FASTER than the Amtrak alternative.

And what an improvement GCT is over NYP. Before catching our return train home, we enjoyed a delicious dinner at the Oyster Bar until exactly 5:10 p.m., whereupon we strolled accross the station to catch our 5:16 p.m. train home, the equipment for which had already long been patformed and receiving passengers. What a joy it was not to have to stand around the sign at NYP waiting for the floodgates to open for Amtrak's late-arriving equipment from Sunnyside yard.

Conclusion: On weekends and holidays, there is really no need to waste one's time and money with Amtrak's expensive Empire Corridor services.

Interesting post - what if the MNR trains went to Albany every hour????? You can get what ever food & drink you want at GCT. What they sell there is far nicer than whatever you might buy on the train!!!!

Please do not remind me of the pizza I had in an amcafe this week. Add enough packets of dijon mustard and you can fool yourself into thinking it's not so bad. The hotdog on the other hand was not too bad. If given the choice, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd rather eat some Subway or Great Steak & Potato I got at the terminal as opposed to the Ampizza available on board.

what if the MNR trains went to Albany every hour?

There's no demand thereof, otherwise such trains would be running. I do not think that people would want to ride on Shoreliners for over three hours in one direction (the seats are rather hard, even compared to Amfleet I seats). This also eliminates the vaunted Penn Station connection—unless of course, you do not wish to change trains for destinations like Washington DC or other such far-flung places.

And of course, the giant hypocrisy over how it's all right to subsidize Metro-North but it's a monstrosity to subsidize Amtrak comes into play. Increase Amtrak's subsidy, and the "priciness" will be overcome. If Metro-North were subsidized to the same degree Amtrak is, I daresay their fares would be even more exorbitant than Amtrak's and their service far less frequent. Please, no double-standards…

I would not say there is no demand.

I have relatives that live and work in the Albany area. There are some people that do wish for Metro North's frequency and price. While MNRR may not serve Penn station, I'm sure a healthy group of people traveling may not be going any further than New York City proper.


As far as comfort of MNRR vs. AMTK, many NY state employees have to travel to work aboard heavily-used dirty MCI coaches or ratty transit buses. Many general Albany employees have to use those transit buses as well as there is very little parking in the city. So while Amtrak is nice, many would probably feel that MNRR is sufficient, esp. considering price differences.

P.S. Now there is talk up there how they want to have a station in downtown Albany. Perhaps someone should have thought about that prior to that multi-billion dollar behemoth they built across the Hudson?

A couple of notes:

1. The Beacon Station is not on Route 9D. The parking lot entrances feed from Beekman St, which is the second light on Route 9D if you're travelling south from I-84. The parking lot is probably a good third of a mile from the traffic light.

2. I don't think that there is no service simply because there is no demand. The MTA is legislatively limited to operating to it's district within New York, which does not include Columbia or Rennselaer counties. Even if they could simply extend their Hudson line trains, there are issues of dispatching, crew provisioning, fuel, train and engine servicing issues, track availability and other little details that prevent Metro-North from providing service to Rennselaer station.

3. Irish Chieftain does raise interesting questions about comfort, but I don't think the question of MNR providing service comes as a replacement for the Empire Corridor service. I'm pretty sure that there are enough people travelling from Albany to NYC to justify more service.

3A. Where is this hypocrisy over subsidizing Amtrak? Was this in another thread? Last time I checked Empire service was subsidized by the State of New York, just not with the same money that is used to subsidize Metro-North.

4. I agree that MNR from Beacon is probably one of the easiest car-train alternatives you can experience from the Capital District, but certainly not a useable alternative for daily service.

I don't know which group this came from, but one of the proposals of the NYS High Speed Rail Task Force would be a NYS Rail Authority, which presumably could operate throughout the state. That could, in theory, allow for GCT-ALB trains assuming that this new agency could work out a deal with CSX.

Actually, because the Empire Corridor was part of the original Amtrak System Map in 1971, Amtrak is statutorily required to maintain the service at the level it was at takeover, and there is no obligation for subsidy on the part of any state.

The only state-subsidized train in New York State is the Adirondack, which was not part of the original Amtrak System.

Now...if NYS CHOOSES to subsidize Empire Corridor service, it may do so...and it has, in the form of track improvements, station improvements, and equipment purchases (yeah, the short-lived reincarnation of the Turboliners). However, I'm not aware of any direct operating subsidies provided by NYS for Empire Corridor service, other than the Adirondack.

Jim

I strongly disagree with this one for a lot of reasons:
1. Gas, tolls, wear and tear on the vehicle add up on a trip like this.
2. Miles from Albany to the station in Beacon is 105 according to AAA
3. Driving time well in excess of two hours assuming that one does not
need to make a "pit" stop along the way.
4. There are 21 Saturday trains from Beacon to New York and only two AM trains are relative express trains and 16 of the 21 trains have a
running time of 1 hour and 30 minutes or more for this trip of 58 miles.
There goes your argument for running time right out the window.
5. Are you trying to convince me that Metro-North trains are more
comfortable with their commuter type seats close together than an Amtrak
coach with its nasty reclining seats? I don't think so.
6. Are you actually saving any money, maybe a little but not much.
7. Lets see, this time of the year we are going into the snow and ice
season, get back to Beacon at night and before you go anywhere, you
need to remove snow, ice or maybe frost from your car and the first few
miles the car interior will be cold and uncomfortable.
8. In the winter time, the roads can be slippery and dangerous and this
will add time and headaches to the automobile part of your trip.
9. Two and one half hour trip and you need food? If you really need food
from Albany to New York, go to Dunkin Donuts or Stewards in Rennsselaer
and you can get pastry, sandwiches, coffee and/or soft drinks enough to
hold you for this trip. In New York, you state that you ate at the Oyster
Bar, if that be the case, you should not need anything more enroute back
to Albany.
As for the terminal in New York, I never rode a train just to admire a
railroad station and for most destinations in the New York City area,
Penn Station is much better for rail and subway connections than is Grand
Central.
Finally if the service out of Albany was as heavily subsidized as the service
out of Beacon is, the fares would be a lot less than they are but the state
does not see fit to do this. OH yes, the parking garage, awlful nice on a
bad night after getting off the train not to have to clean or remove snow
or ice before you are able to even move the car.
One last thought, if enough people in the Albany area were to follow this
kind of advice, they might find themselves with much less service to and
from Albany when the time comes that they need to use it.
Be careful what you wish for.
Noel Weaver

Erie-Lackawanna wrote:Now...if NYS CHOOSES to subsidize Empire Corridor service, it may do so...and it has, in the form of track improvements, station improvements, and equipment purchases (yeah, the short-lived reincarnation of the Turboliners). However, I'm not aware of any direct operating subsidies provided by NYS for Empire Corridor service, other than the Adirondack.

I think you're right about the only train that is directly subsidized by the State is the Adirondack. But I was not solely referring to operational subsidies. It doesn't have to be a recurring line item in each year's budget to be called a subsidy. Capital improvements for their (Amtrak's) benefit *are* a subsidy.

Noel Weaver wrote:I strongly disagree with this one for a lot of reasons:
1. Gas, tolls, wear and tear on the vehicle add up on a trip like this.
2. Miles from Albany to the station in Beacon is 105 according to AAA
3. Driving time well in excess of two hours assuming that one does not
need to make a "pit" stop along the way.
4. There are 21 Saturday trains from Beacon to New York and only two AM trains are relative express trains and 16 of the 21 trains have a
running time of 1 hour and 30 minutes or more for this trip of 58 miles.
There goes your argument for running time right out the window.
5. Are you trying to convince me that Metro-North trains are more
comfortable with their commuter type seats close together than an Amtrak
coach with its nasty reclining seats? I don't think so.
6. Are you actually saving any money, maybe a little but not much.
7. Lets see, this time of the year we are going into the snow and ice
season, get back to Beacon at night and before you go anywhere, you
need to remove snow, ice or maybe frost from your car and the first few
miles the car interior will be cold and uncomfortable.
8. In the winter time, the roads can be slippery and dangerous and this
will add time and headaches to the automobile part of your trip.
9. Two and one half hour trip and you need food? If you really need food
from Albany to New York, go to Dunkin Donuts or Stewards in Rennsselaer
and you can get pastry, sandwiches, coffee and/or soft drinks enough to
hold you for this trip. In New York, you state that you ate at the Oyster
Bar, if that be the case, you should not need anything more enroute back
to Albany.
As for the terminal in New York, I never rode a train just to admire a
railroad station and for most destinations in the New York City area,
Penn Station is much better for rail and subway connections than is Grand
Central.
Finally if the service out of Albany was as heavily subsidized as the service
out of Beacon is, the fares would be a lot less than they are but the state
does not see fit to do this. OH yes, the parking garage, awlful nice on a
bad night after getting off the train not to have to clean or remove snow
or ice before you are able to even move the car.
One last thought, if enough people in the Albany area were to follow this
kind of advice, they might find themselves with much less service to and
from Albany when the time comes that they need to use it.
Be careful what you wish for.
Noel Weaver

I don't think the original poster looked at this as a daily commute, but rather a substitute for using Amtrak since they no longer offer unreserved service between NYP and ALB (or cafe cars on many trains). When you add up the Thruway driving time and the 90 minutes from Beacon to GCT you're not spending much more time on the road (door-to-door) than you would if you drove to Rennsalaer and waited for Amtrak. I don't think wear and tear or gas are a long term concern since his idea wasn't intended to be a daily substitute.

I don't know where the 2 hour (drive-time) number came from, especially when it doesn't account for how much time it takes to drive from anywhere in (City of) Albany to the Train Station. I think the Thruway-exit to Beacon number is fair comparison of travel time.

At $48/RT from Albany on Amtrak, it's a small savings in money for one person, but it (the savings) increases considerably if you have more than one adult travelling with you. When you consider that the trains are unreserved on Metro-North (and more frequent), the increased hassle of driving to Beacon is minor (if you even consider it a hassle) compared to the savings in time and money.

The Albany station draws from a pretty wide area for NYC service, so if you live on the Western Side of the river, you may save a considerable amount of time driving further south, especially if you live south of Albany.

When Amtrak continues to make customer un-friendly decisions like eliminating cafe cars and making the trains all-reserve, people (especially families) are going to look at alternatives. Kudos for Rhinecliff for taking the time to point this one out.

When Amtrak continues to make customer un-friendly decisions like eliminating cafe cars and making the trains all-reserve, people (especially families) are going to look at alternatives

When Amtrak gets less than a tenth of what a railroad like Metro-North gets, they are forced to cut. Imagine Metro-North with a subsidy to scale with Amtrak's—you'd be lucky to have weekend service to Poughkeepsie, and indeed to have much beyond rush-hour service on the Hudson Line (and forget about four tracks north of Spuyten Duyvil).

Irish Chieftain wrote:

When Amtrak continues to make customer un-friendly decisions like eliminating cafe cars and making the trains all-reserve, people (especially families) are going to look at alternatives

When Amtrak gets less than a tenth of what a railroad like Metro-North gets, they are forced to cut. Imagine Metro-North with a subsidy to scale with Amtrak's—you'd be lucky to have weekend service to Poughkeepsie, and indeed to have much beyond rush-hour service on the Hudson Line (and forget about four tracks north of Spuyten Duyvil).

1. I never said that Amtrak was wrong to cut back when they don't have the money to provide the service. As E-L pointed out, they are obligated to provide 1971-level service. If you can't cut the train, you can certainly cut services from the train in order to save money. When you cut services, people look elsewhere, especially when you're not the cheapest outfit in town.

2. Amtrak is a national railroad with a national funding problem. Capital improvements aside, there is no (federal) funding source to help Amtrak break even on the operating side. Metro-North (and other MTA properties) take their share of operating subsidies from the Bridge and Tunnel surplus. Amtrak simply runs to congress each year expecting 1 billion plus, as they should -- it's Congress' fault that they can't cut the money-losing routes.

One last thought, if enough people in the Albany area were to follow this kind of advice, they might find themselves with much less service to and from Albany when the time comes that they need to use it.

I paid Amtrak $112.00 for my last day-trip to the City for just myself. This compares with $39.50 on the Metro-North for my mother, my son, and myself. And that is not even the highest price that Amtrak is charging these days. Had I taken Amtrak instead of the Metro-North, the cost of the ticket would have been well over FOUR times higher. So, yes, I really did save money, no matter how you look at it. Amtrak has simply priced itself out of the family-travel, weekend/holiday discretionary market.

Then, when you add to the high prices, the reservation policy and the lack of food service, I cannot avoid the conclusion that when it comes to recreational day trips, my Amtrak usage is largely over.

Yes, the garage at Rensselaer can be nice on the relatively few days that it snows, but it is often full, it costs $6.00, and dealing with the idiotic attendant situation no matter where you end up parking can consume several extra minutes on the way home. (The airport offers Easy Pass, which allows passengers to avoid the lines created by slow moving parking attendants.)

As for driving times, my time estimates from the Thruway exits were conservative. Perhaps the best thing is to refer anyone who wants to see how it would work for themselves to Yahoo Maps. Beacon Station is located at 1 Ferry Plaza and Beekman Street, Beacon New York 12508.

Finally, the Metro-Noth operates its Hudson line trains on time about 95 percent of the time. How does Amtrak compare to that?

I commute from Dutchess county to NYC every day. A former Amtrak passenger, I have recently switched to Metro-North for a variety of reasons :

• Lack of reliability on Amtrak
  Elimination of food service cancelled an advantage over MTA
  Idiotic Amtrak schedules; very frequent MTA service
  Penn Station is a hell-hole

The claim that "Penn Station better serves downtown NYC" is a canard; Wall Street is perfectly well served.

The move to all-reserved trains is ridiculous; it means that even if I wanted to alternate between MTA and Amtrak through the use of 10-journey tickets is now not possible (since Amtrak 10 trips expire in 6 weeks; I'm not going to keep one in reserve if it is likely to expire before I use all trips).

Penn Station is the pits. It is oppressive, badly designed, dirtyand unwelcoming. GCT is everything that Penn Station is not.

Amtrak scheduling is insane, at least for commuters. Why, for example, in the afternoon are there trains on the hour, but at rush hour they're almost 90 minutes apart ?

Why do Amtrak stations STILL have low level platforms, so you have to clamber up steps - almost impossible if you have small kids in tow ?

Why the moronic id requirement when purchasing tickets at a ticket window, even if paying with a credit card - but not when purchasing from a machine ?

Why force passengers to congregate on the main level in Penn Station and treat them like cattle; in GCT you can board your train at your leisure.

I know that many posters can give a justification or rationale for why things are as they are with Amtrak. That may be so; but I don't really care. I just know that it's worth my while driving to Poughkeepsie - where I can park my car in an indoor car park - instead of braving the elements at Rhinecliff, waiting for a train that, especially in winter, will come late - or may never come at all.

Amtrak is the pits and so is Penn Station. I wouldn't want to commute from Albany, but for the occasional trip I would CERTAINLY got to Beacon and hit Metro North from there. For the most part the, the cars are in good shape, the seats......well, the seats suck, but they could be worse. For the money, the experiance and the end location I wouldn't trade away Metro North for anything.

Penn is NOT more conveniant to anything. Wall St. is easily reached via the 4 or 5 on the Lexington Ave line and there are far more offices within walking distance of GCT than Penn. GCT is in the heart of midtown. If you do have to get to the west side, the difference between Penn and GCT is only a 5 minute shuttle ride appart.