CSX River Line (West Shore) Double Tracking?

Noel Weaver wrote: I am sure that nobody could forsee back around 1960 when the second
track was pulled up that this line would have the freight traffic that it has
in 2006.
Noel Weaver

I remember when the passenger service was discontinued and it got very quiet near my home in West Norwood. There were about a dozen freights a day back then, a far cry from today's action of 30 or more. As far as double tracking goes, extending the siding at Milton from CP 69 up to MP 86 in Port Ewen would be a nice move in the middle of the line. Kingston tunnel and Wilbur Bridge would probably have to remain single track without a very large investment.

Reinstalling second track between Ravena and Kingston also makes sense to me, but then I'm not the one investing expensive capital.

LCJ wrote:Reinstalling second track between Ravena and Kingston also makes sense to me, but then I'm not the one investing expensive capital.

Ravena to Coxsackie would be a nice start. Catskill viaduct would be expensive to rebuild. While it was once double track, that was not with the wide clearances that are required today. Lake Katrine would be the same issue on a smaller scale. With enough $$$, there are no obstacles.

Squeezing down to single track for those two locations wouldn't be bad.

This interesting discussion has led me to dig out some old River Division
timetables, here are some tidbits of dates that I came up with:

Last timetable that showed four tracks between North Bergen and Dumont
except over Little Ferry Bridge was dated 4-29-56

I might be missing a timetable in between as the number series start[ed
over at no. 1 on 4-28-57 which only showed two tracks over the above
stretch.

Timetable no. 3 dated 4-27-58 was the last timetable to show passenger
service to Albany and points between. Supplement no. 1 to this timetable
took effect 6-30-58 and abolished all passenger service west of West
Haverstraw. A few trains terminated at West Norwood but most of them
terminated at West Haverstraw. A B/O took effect 7-29-58 and extended
the trains that terminated at West Norwood on to West Haverstraw and
contained the schedules for the extended trains.

The last passenger trains ran on or about December 11, 1959 between
Weehawken and West Haverstraw. I do not have a B/O or a timetable
supplement but I do have a clipping with that date on it. Trains all over
the northeast were coming off "like flies" at that time. Every major
railroad was cutting trains and the timetables were getting smaller and
small at that time.

The next timetable no. 6 showed single track between Kingston and
Selkirk with operation by timetable and train orders and an ABS in effect.
Same timetable showed three west bound freight trains as second class
trains.

Timetable no. 7, dated 10-30-60 showed single track between West Nyack
and Selkirk. Block and interlocking stations at the time were at:
National Junction (NJ), Willow Avenue (AV), Weehawken (TU), North
Bergen (WE), Little Ferry (FY), West Haverstraw (WH), West Point (WP),
Newburgh (GY), Kingston (KY), Alsen (AN) and Selkirk Jct (SK).
At that time, West Haverstraw, West Point, Newburgh and Alsen were not
shown as interlockings but only as block stations.
TCS rules apparently were in effect as far as Bogota from Weehawken.

Timetable no. 16 of 10-31-65 showed TCS rules in effect all the way and
dwarf signals and spring switches on the sidings.

Finally, timetable no. 22 of 11-5-67 showed control points and interlockings at the ends of the sidings as we knew them during our times
there.

Even during my time (and your's too), it would have helped somewhat if
all of the sidings had been circuited, upgraded and maintained for 30 MPH
operation, with the weather conditions and other things that we
encountered on this line, it could have helped us a lot and saved time on
the many meets as well.

It was an interesting period.

I have most of the timetables of this period but I wish I had them all.

Noel Weaver

its hard to believe that most of the nj portion was 4 tracks. I mean sitting in RP or Bogot it must've been a tight squeeze. Now i know why the tracks were so far away from the old rp station.

Here is what I have in terms of ETT from the 1958 to 1962 era. ETT #3 of 4/27/58. Train 959 still terminated in Dumont and DU was open from 4 p.m. to 1 a.m. M-F. Also, when Dumont locals were removed, some trains went to 8+ cars and got TWO RS-3's. Believe that Train 994 out of Newburg on weekday mornings had a combine followed by 10 coaches.

Freight-only ETTs include #8 of 4/30/61, #9 of 10/29/61, and #10 of 4/29/62. #9 showed Bogota to Selkirk as ABS while #8 and #10 showed it as TT&TO. Also, at that time, WB local main was retained between Bogota and Dumont (SS was just south of New Milford Avenue) as a 665-car passing siding.

DocJohn
Macon, GA

Going off topic a bit... was Northeast Container in Bergenfield the only siding left north of Ridgefield in NJ?
Business was owned by a friend who passed away a few years ago, sad to see the place empty, but I remember the siding being installed when they built the paper warehouse on the south end of the property.

RichM wrote:Going off topic a bit... was Northeast Container in Bergenfield the only siding left north of Ridgefield in NJ?
Business was owned by a friend who passed away a few years ago, sad to see the place empty, but I remember the siding being installed when they built the paper warehouse on the south end of the property.

That was the only one I recall. There was a team track in West Norwood, near my house, that got very little use and was removed in the Conrail days. First siding north of Bergenfield used to be Mopar in Orangeburg and Orangeburg yard. The old Camp Shanks siding was south of that and had been gone for many years. There was talk of putting it back in for the steel fabricator at that location during the building of the Palisades Mall, but I'm not sure if that was ever done. If you turn back the clock far enough, there were many coal sidings along the route and the track at West Norwood was used for a milk bottling plant that is nowthe home of the Goddard School near MP 17.

I do remember the team track at the bottom of Blanche Avenue, and I remember the odd boxcar spotted there... doesn't seem that long ago but it's been more than thirty years gone I guess. I was really just wondering how much a pain in the neck it is to switch an odd industry on a busy line without a lot of other businesses. Seems like if there was any logic, you'd tack the cars on the front end and drop them on the last southbound... but what do I know?

In the period around 1974 when I used my seniority to take a regular
road freight job on the River Line, there were two way freights that
regularly worked out of Weehawken. One was WH-1/HW-2 which usually
worked between Weehawken and West Haverstraw. The other one was
WG-1/GW-2 which could work all the way between Weehawken and
Newburgh but normally only worked between Weehawken and either
Orangeburg or maybe West Nyack.
The through jobs did not normally do any local work enroute although a
stop at Kingston was often made to either pick up or drop in either
direction as at that time there locals working out of Kingston too.
Noel Weaver

Thanks Noel. I never had an idea what was on the line above Haverstraw, just memories of various industries that are long gone. I do know that my friend's business in Bergenfield was well served by Penn Central through the bankruptcy and through the early days of Conrail... it's a testament that many of you were working hard against the pressure of perhaps the whole thing collapsing under its own weight.

In Teaneck,NJ there is a (now closed) industry track that comes off of what is now track 1 (of the three tracks). It actually goes up a steep grade into what I believe was called "Stanton Chemical". A few years ago, I used to see them get covered hoppers.

Sometimes I have seen a bad order car put in there.

If you go to the south side of the Cedar Lane overpass in Teaneck, you can see the switch.

Vincent

zablocki22 wrote:In Teaneck,NJ there is a (now closed) industry track that comes off of what is now track 1 (of the three tracks). It actually goes up a steep grade into what I believe was called "Stanton Chemical". A few years ago, I used to see them get covered hoppers.

Sometimes I have seen a bad order car put in there.

If you go to the south side of the Cedar Lane overpass in Teaneck, you can see the switch.

Vincent

i'll have to check that out. i've never seen that.

i got to check out the new work in west park today, alot of trains were moving through, so i got some 'ec-1' practice. the double crossover is in[not the kind w/ a diamond in the middle!] on concrete ties. the rest of the track is being laid on wood. up by qr80[old post rd] they only have a switch in, the older bridge over the creek is gone next to the newer one, and the bridge for the new track hasn't arrived yet. i stayed low key and didn't bother anyone for details. new signals installed, masts on the ends, and signal bridges at the crossover. you can get clear shots from the rt 9 bridge. a small army of folks out there, looks like things are moving along well.
down at iona, theres a bunch of containers and precast signal pads.