• Toms River Industrial Track!

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by R&DB
 
@CCulter:
I hope Toms River citizens never need to endure such a grueling commute.
Loads of Toms River area people commute to NYC/North Jersey jobs every day. If you wish to see for yourself go to the Asbury service area on the Parkway at 5:30am and watch the northbound traffic flow for the next two hours. The same thing happens on Rte-9. Passenger rail service from Toms Rver to the North would help take some of the traffic off the highways. The problem is the entire rail lines to the north would need complete re-building to allow reasonable speeds. Currently the railspeed is 10mph due to track condition. (Viable passenger rail traffic needs to move at 80mph.) Additionally there currently is no connection between the TRIT and the Southern Secondary. The cost to re-build the entire route and upgrade the crossings is way too high to ever pay for itself. Back in the early 1900s trains powered by steam roared through the area at 70mph, but there has been little or no maintenance since.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CharlieL wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:23 pm I don't think you are likely to see the line revitalized for commuter or general passenger service for several reasons as mentioned in this thread previously: Cost of upgrading the line and the Southern to allow some reasonable speed, and transit time compared to rte 9 bus service. More likely to see the old PRR line from somewhere near Toms River, thru Pemberton for Ocean county to Philadelphia commuters. And that ain't gonna happen either.

Let's just hope for some freight traffic.
This is why I think D&D came on board all of sudden, I think this is a way for NJT to outsource some maintenance on the line to a third party, and see what happens. The ROW is in bad shape but if a private company took it on instead initially, maybe it won't scare NJT away anymore.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
One positive about Toms River is that the bus station is next to the out of service CNJ branch - a premade
intermodal station right there.
  by Tanker1497
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:52 pm
CharlieL wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:23 pm I don't think you are likely to see the line revitalized for commuter or general passenger service for several reasons as mentioned in this thread previously: Cost of upgrading the line and the Southern to allow some reasonable speed, and transit time compared to rte 9 bus service. More likely to see the old PRR line from somewhere near Toms River, thru Pemberton for Ocean county to Philadelphia commuters. And that ain't gonna happen either.

Let's just hope for some freight traffic.
This is why I think D&D came on board all of sudden, I think this is a way for NJT to outsource some maintenance on the line to a third party, and see what happens. The ROW is in bad shape but if a private company took it on instead initially, maybe it won't scare NJT away anymore.
This is what I've said all along,. The State of NJ getting things done with grants not objected too! The cost for NJ to go out to bid on a railroad rehab of any kind would take years and millions to get a bid from a pay to play contractor. This would surely mean great paying Union wages at every asspect of the Job! From the Buldozer operator to the person holding a sign saying Stop/ Slow. A small privetly owned company can pay fair wages and get far more done with far less funds.
In America the cost for Rehabed Rail Mile is 1 to 2 Million (2015) in Europe its 250K... there's your sign!
In most of the United States the cost is closer to 1 million, but here on the East Coast the cost surpasses 2 million,
in places like MA,CT,RI,NY,NJ,DE,MD! LOL!
Discaimer I was a Union worker for 32 years!
  by Tanker1497
 
Image
I was out fishing and made my way around the other side of the pond.
I didn't realized the Trit or Barnegat branch was just on the other side.
Image
Image
If you look at the close up that green in the photo is the back yards of
Holiday City Berkeley just 20 ft away.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Tanker1497 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 am Image
I was out fishing and made my way around the other side of the pond.
I didn't realized the Trit or Barnegat branch was just on the other side.
Image
Image
If you look at the close up that green in the photo is the back yards of
Holiday City Berkeley just 20 ft away.
Where exactly is this spot, if you mind sharing?
  by R&DB
 
John.
I don't know where Tanker took the pictures but, judging by what he wrote, it's probably the pond Northwest of the Bimini Road crossing of the TRIT. Google maps sat view.
Last edited by R&DB on Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Bracdude181
 
Doesn’t look like a whole lot of work is needed to get it running again...
  by R&DB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:02 pm Doesn’t look like a whole lot of work is needed to get it running again...
Need a turnout in Lakehurst, tons of crossing protection work besides clearing the ROW. All for maybe two caars a week. Poor return on investment.
  by Bracdude181
 
@R&DB For two cars maybe, but if a new operator could get some transloading going we’d see a lot more than just two cars.
  by CJPat
 
Keep in mind that transloading is not an easy solution for a Customer.

It requires hauling equipment (that he may have to rent), like a forklift, crane, or conveyor system along with the trucks and personnel needed. That is a major operation for any warehouse to conduct off-site....and expensive when compared to just having the truck drive up to your own loading dock and your people off-loading normally straight into their own facility on a normal daily routine. This doesn't even account for the extra-liability (insurance requirements) of doing work on someone else's property.

Then there is the whole "when do you schedule all the rental equipment?" since railroad scheduling is not precise (for smaller loads than unit train size).

It is not all that desirable to transload.
  by CR7876
 
Dont worry, your facts won't derail the fantasy.
  by Bracdude181
 
@CJPat I know. It’s nowhere near as easy as it sounds and it’s definitely not the end all solution for a customers needs, but there’s definitely businesses in the Central NJ area that can benefit from a transloading center though. Mainly the larger ones who deal with a whole lot of trucks on a daily basis. Why bother trucking it x amount of miles using several trucks and drivers having to pay for fuel and the insurance and having to pay the driver when you can bring it to one spot and have one guy go back and fourth ferrying the product a much shorter distance? Yes equipment rental will be something to work out because not all businesses who deal with bulk products or whatever are gonna have their own trucks. Many in the area have their own trucks however, so what they often do is they go to wherever they get their product and pick it up themselves.

So why go through all the effort of driving it in from far away when you can go maybe a 30-45 minute drive max (depending on the customer location) and pick it up directly from the train?

Conrail already does this in North Jersey along with CSX and NS who all have their own personal yards for transloading and that’s not even including whatever Raritan Central does. C&D do it too and even they get a few cars from doing it and they are in a rural area.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:05 am
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:02 pm Doesn’t look like a whole lot of work is needed to get it running again...
Need a turnout in Lakehurst, tons of crossing protection work besides clearing the ROW. All for maybe two caars a week. Poor return on investment.
Why have they been doing work to crossings like Bimini Drive then? It would make more sense just to pave over it, and not try to rehab crossings
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CJPat wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:00 am Keep in mind that transloading is not an easy solution for a Customer.

It requires hauling equipment (that he may have to rent), like a forklift, crane, or conveyor system along with the trucks and personnel needed. That is a major operation for any warehouse to conduct off-site....and expensive when compared to just having the truck drive up to your own loading dock and your people off-loading normally straight into their own facility on a normal daily routine. This doesn't even account for the extra-liability (insurance requirements) of doing work on someone else's property.

Then there is the whole "when do you schedule all the rental equipment?" since railroad scheduling is not precise (for smaller loads than unit train size).

It is not all that desirable to transload.
Unless they are trying to put some giant industrial park/facility in Ciba Geigy, or a very very large trans-loading facility run by the railroad or a third-party operator that would serve multiple customers and have all transloading equipment in-house. Either or, if it would happen period, it's a ways away
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