The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

[EuroStar]

Is it me or there is a new speed restriction on track 1 east of the Hackensack River bridge? The curve where the freight line of NS merges is sharp, but it seems painfully slow these days with the speed probably as low as 10mph.

[EuroStar]

I saw what I believe to be two seven car Metro-North trainsets in simultaneous existence at Secaucus yesterday. One was on train number 53 going west. A few minutes later 66 came east again with 7 cars. This might have been a leftover from Monday when they might have wanted the longer sets to accommodate people going back to the city.

[SecaucusJunction]

I believe 53 and 66 always have 7 cars.

[srock1028]

I believe 53 and 66 always have 7 cars.

Correct...
48-43-62-53 and 52-47-66-57 are the 7 car sets.

[trainbrain]

It used to be that 49 came back as 66, but when they added 47, that changed and now 47's consist comes back as 66. There is also one more train going outbound than inbound and 49 has no obvious return trip. What happens to that set at the end of the line? Does it run empty back to Suffern?

[SecaucusJunction]

It deadheads all the way back to Hoboken. It's a real shame that it couldn't be a revenue run back from Middletown. It would seem to be a very good time for an inbound train for people spending the evening in the city.

[trainbrain]

If the set used on 49 is based out of Hoboken then it probably uses NJ Transit equipment, right? Definitely should be a revenue run if it's going there anyways, but maybe the added time at the stations precludes that train carrying passengers.

[EuroStar]

I believe 53 and 66 always have 7 cars.

Cool! I was under the obviously mistaken impression that there was only one 7 car set, so that is why I was surprised to see two of them at the same time.

It deadheads all the way back to Hoboken. It's a real shame that it couldn't be a revenue run back from Middletown. It would seem to be a very good time for an inbound train for people spending the evening in the city.

This makes me curious. How do deadheads work? The engineer is obviously on duty, but is the crew on duty? Other than the tiny fuel savings from avoiding starting and stopping at stations, how much cheaper is it to deadhead a train than to run it in revenue service? Not that I am necessarily proposing to turn that deadhead into a revenue service run.

[waldwickrailfan]

If the set used on 49 is based out of Hoboken then it probably uses NJ Transit equipment, right? Definitely should be a revenue run if it's going there anyways, but maybe the added time at the stations precludes that train carrying passengers.

All equipment is mixed. Usually, I see it with 7 Metro-North C5's, with an NJT Geep. All Metro-North trains on the WOH go to/come from Hoboken

[trainbrain]

Port Jervis express trains that make no stops between Ridgewood and Secaucus can be routed via either the Main or Bergen line. What factors go into deciding which line to route these trains on? I'm sure that scheduling around the local trains plays a factor, also construction if any would make a difference. One time I was on train #58, and they sent it on the Main Line, right through a bunch of construction. I kept thinking "why didn't they take the Bergen Line instead?" Do trains typically use the same line on every run, or do some vary which line they take. I know trains making local stops must take their respective lines, but I'm only referring to express trains that make no stops on either line.

[EuroStar]

The expresses are scheduled on a specific line, either Main or Bergen. While it has happened for an express to be routed along the line which it is NOT scheduled on that is quite rare. As you pointed out scheduling of the locals is the major culprit. Even though there are 4 tracks between Secaucus and Ridgewood Junction (not Ridgewood station) they are effectively four local tracks, not not two local and two express tracks which is what you would find commonly on four tracked lines where all tracks are next to each other. On a four next to each other tracks the locals run one after the other on the two outer tracks (usually), but here because the two lines diverge forming two "separate sides" there are locals on each of the four tracks in order to serve all stations. For the most part that precludes overtaking of trains -- while it happens, it can rarely be done because it involves running "wrong" rail between at least two interlockings and doing so means that opposite direction traffic must wait or be non-existent for the "side" in question(Main or Bergen). The only other way to run the expresses is to let one express go, then send the local immediately after it and not let another express chase it until enough time has passed, so as to guarantee that such follow up express would not catch up with the local. The best example of that is the afternoon peak: there are 4 NJ semiexpresses to Radburn or Ridgewood(the first semiexpress in the schedule is a Main line train) about one every half hour and the locals are soon after them.

There are a few overtakes that happen in the three track section between Ridgewood Junction and Waldwick. For example, 61 overtakes 1171 there. Just from looking at the schedule, running "wrong" rail must happen in the segment between Waldwick and Suffern -- for example, 44 seems too soon after 1148 while there is no opposing moves (on the public schedule, I do not have an employee schedule with the deadhead moves).

The scheduling on the line is undoubtedly complicated by the need to run the locals on both "sides". The line in its current configuration is probably close to saturation in terms of expresses at peak hour, not that there is need for more at current ridership levels. Eventually Metro-North might end up needing to pay NJTransit to triple track between Waldwick and Suffern if they decide to run hourly express service, but that is probably decades away.

[SecaucusJunction]

The midpoint yard and extra track west of Suffern design is in the current (2015-2019) budget for MTA. I would assume that MTA would increase service to just about hourly during the day to that point with that kind of investment. Further, many of the locals that used to terminate in Waldwick have been extended to Suffern, especially during off peak hours. Increasing track west of Suffern for more service is a necessity but I think they will also run into problems east of Suffern to Waldwick. Of course, this would be a non-issue if they weren't so quick to rip out as much track as they possibly could in the mid 80's.

[trainbrain]

With regard to 44 likely wrong railing between Suffern and Waldwick, it's so early in the day that there aren't any westbound revenue moves at that time. Because it's so early, I'd think that there are likely enough trains stored in Suffern to run all revenue service before 44 comes through that there would be no need to have any deadhead moves until after 44 comes through. I'm guessing it would be switched to the middle track at Waldwick if it were to wrong rail.

[SecaucusJunction]

I remember seeing signs a while back at Ramsey Route 17 station that said a morning eastbound would always arrive on the westbound track. I can't remember which train it was and the signs have been gone for a long time. Depending on the spotty announcements at the station, wrong railing a train could leave a lot of people on the wrong platform when the train arrives.

[EuroStar]

Another very painful morning commute for Port Jervis line customers due to trespasser fatality. A great example of a situation in which the Piermont branch would have been very handy. Of course the NIMBYs who killed it don't take the train ...