• The East Side Access Project Discussion (ESA)

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by Head-end View
Photobug, The logical way that non-ESA train passengers will transfer to a ESA train would be a cross-platform transfer at Jamaica, the same way similar such transfers have been done for a hundred years. It's possible that such transfers could also be made in some cases at Huntington or Hicksville. Did you have something else in mind?
  by Head-end View
I envision the scenario at Jamaica as very similar to what exists today. A Diesel train on track-1, an ESA train on track-2 and a Penn Station train on track-3. Or maybe those positions on tracks 2-3 reversed. Only the Brooklyn passengers getting the short end of the stick with a very inconvenient up and over to the new Brooklyn Shuttle platform on the south side of the station.
  by photobug56
That's logical. But then, we are talking about LIRR... And cross platform, while the only thing that works, is imperfect. Transferring from an outbound M train of 12 cars to a diesel junker of 3 cars whose position on the platform can vary daily doesn't work well - you get off the M, look for the train, hope you can see it, and then run like crazy to have a chance to make it aboard and get a seat. Of course, up and over - if escalator and elevator are working, get up, than (if you can) run down the steps - hopefully the right ones (not always what's marked), and try to get there before the doors close.
  by gamer4616
I see a listing in the Track Work Timetable calendar that lists a crew pick for 10/17/22 in conjunction with General Order 102. It lists ESA '22 SCHEDULE CREW PICK.

Generally there is a general order put out right after Labor Day, where schedules change following the end of summer. That's crossed out and it lists General Order 102 for 10/17/22. I haven't been told anything, but perhaps that's when the LIRR takes full control of the Grand Central Branch.

As of now, the Grand Central Branch is under the jurisdiction of MTACD Live Rail Access rules and requirements. The exception being for LIRR training and testing when jurisdiction is temporarily transferred over via Form L (Train Order).

I'm guessing the 10/17/22 date is when we'll continue to see further testing/training and the target date of passenger service of December 2022 being a possibility.
  by photobug56
Huge amount to train for. Not just ESA, but also 3rd track. And lots of people to train. And they don't seem to be giving it much time. London Crossrail project has several months of heavy duty running, evacuation drills and far more. When they open, the only difference is that it will be the general public using it. With ESA and even 3rd rail, I can imagine all sorts of confusion and broken messaging.
  by photobug56
What an idiotic name. I guess Hochum decided that this is only for people on Madison Avenue - maybe she'll have all other ways in and out closed.

I could understand 1. LIRR East Side, or 2. GCT-LIRR, or something to tell people that it is an East Side LIRR station. In the meantime, she seems to be taking credit for the entire project - I figure in that case, maybe should take the blame for all the money down the tubes and all the delays.

Did someone say here, or would I have seen it elsewhere, that while some sort of service in and out is supposed to start in December, that it will really take months more to finish?

And do we know if they have emergency generators in case there is a blackout? Lots of people would be stranded in the dark, down deep, if they don't and it loses power.
  by Head-end View
I agree that Grand Central Madison is a dumb name. Why not just say Grand Central Terminal like Metro-North does?
  by RandallW
I think the new concourse is believed to feel distant enough from and different enough from what is (has been) considered Grand Central Terminal that they wanted to acknowledge that. Kind of similar to how the NYC Subway has a "Grand Central" station, not a "Grand Central Terminal" station.

I'm not saying "Grand Central Madison" is a great name, but it is definitely easier than "Madison Concourse of Grand Central Terminal".
  by Head-end View
We should try to come up with a better name. How about Grand Central East ?
  by photobug56
How about Grand Central LIRR? It's not a specific street, nor the first name of a crazy member of Congress. It says Grand Central, but identifies it as Long Island Rail Road. Note that there will be many ways in and out, from Madison on the west, to Lex on the east, and fairly far north on Madison and Park. In the end, it's the Long Island Rail Road addition to Grand Central.

As to Gov Hokum, she said something like - East Side Access could be confused with the East Coast of the USA! Well, she might get confused. I'm guessing most commuters will understand what ESA means, let alone GCT-LIRR.
  by RandallW
Grand Central Terminal is in Midtown, about 30 blocks south of the Upper East Side neighborhood and about 40 blocks north of the Lower East Side neighborhood (both named places in Manhattan that are called out without searching in Google Maps). What I am getting at is the Governor is correct that "East Side" has different meanings to different people within New York, so "East Side Access" is not a useful name for way-finding.

Having been involved in naming things for way finding purposes, this is not an easy problem to solve -- the name needs to be reasonably descriptive, short enough to be scannable, and contextually unambiguous for multiple contexts. Examples of contexts are "how do I (a commuter) get from Hicksville to a job in Midtown 5 days a week", "how do I (an overseas visitor) go between JFK and the Hilton on 45th st.", "how do I (who live and work in Yonkers) get to New Haven for the day", or "how do I (a retiree) get from Long Beach to a Yankee's Game". Note that the last three need more way finding assistance than the first (even though the first is more likely to be a majority of the users of the new terminal).
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