The CNJ Seashore Branch in its final years (NATCO Secondary)

CNJ4104 wrote:redbaron3067

Don't forget Matawan Lumber on Rt79. I remember seeing cars parked right on the Freehold main to be unloaded. Where was Dunlop and Lisk?

CNJ4104

Dunlop and Lisk is (was?) the brick/stone/piping supply that was right across the tracks from Matawan Lumber on Rt 79.

They used to have something of a freight shed- i guess you'd call it- a wooden building with an elevated platform up against the tracks. I'd imagine for unloaded boxcars but i never saw a box car there that i can recall. It was basically in their yard but was all the way at the back corner and the office was up front- so all the local kids used to hang out there.

imperial oil is(was) a superfund site now a days.

I also remember one time a train taking a huge (well it was huge to a little kid) transformer(s) on one of those flat cars that sags in the middle to get extra clearance- to the JCPL substation down off Texas/Wilson ave's. It's a bit blurry- I think it was way before Matawan was electrified but MAYBE MAYBE somehow related- they put in a transmission line along the ROW from that Substation to the "new" substation just past the NJCL Matawan Station (sorry Aberdeen- Matawan. cry babies- laughing) by Llyod Road and the Parkway- basically in the armpit of the Natco and NJCL junction. I can't recall entirely but i think Matawan get fed out of South Amboy but then they built that "new" substation for Matawan-> Redbank?

(Boy did the "grownups" have a cow and go all NIMBY when JCPL put that power line in along the right of way.)

CNJ4104 wrote:Yeah, I questioned the name as well at the time (I was 15). The crews explained to me that while in the past (pre 1977) most of their work was south (TT west) of Red Bank. When that volume dried up the largest shipper on the line was Midland Glass in Cliffwood. When I would see it come through just before the afternoon rush it could at times have 15 to 20 cars. Mostly old 34 foot covered hoppers in every conceivable pre Conrail roadname. LNE, NYC, CNJ, wish I would have taken more car photos but film and was expensive for a 15 year old. Oh yes if I remember correctly, those boxcars at the head of the train in the photo of the BBT are from Dixie Cup in Middletown.

Does anyone know when Midland Glass was built? That might be a good estimation as to when the BBT Started coming this far TT east.

CNJ 4104
Scott

midland glass was originally america can and bottle I think- build around 1960. Then around 1970- midland bought it. Then in the 80's anchor glass bought it. Electricity cost too much in NJ so they closed it up in the 90's (after a failed attempt to get Aberdeen to create their own electric utility to try and save them costs). I remembered always seeing enclosed hoppers over there.

NJTArrow2 wrote:I have a few questions about CR on the NATCO Secondary and Freehold Branch.
1.Where did the train come from?
2.How fast did it go on the NATCO Secondary?
3.How fast did it go on the Freehold Branch?
4.What was the symbol for the train?

3. it was SLOW at least in the '70's. when i was a little kid we used to walk along the train- it was so slow that we could would run up ahead and put coins on the tracks then wait for it to get smashed into the rail then leapfrog up again- the whole while the train crew yelling at us. (sorry to any one that worked the trains) Then the older kids used to really abuse the rails- there was one spot that the bigger kids would dig out a "fort" under the tracks right behind the colonial shops at rt 516/79- a good 3-4 feet of the tracks and ties hanging in the air all the time- still amazed the train could cross that. Seemed like once a year the MOW train would come along and swap some ties and them stuff a pile of ballest in the hole.

as posted above the crossing were a problem. There were never gates to my knowledge on any of the crossings. But some crossings had lights- rt 79 for sure- maybe church street in Aberdeen- dont think texas road and wilson road had. The lights rarely were operational. They might work a while then die. As years went on they were broke more and more (poles, control boxes, arms would get broke off at rt 79- the road is curved there comes into town from a higher speed limit, used to have a y intersection, blind curve with entrance to the park, etc ,etc so always had accidents that were hitting stuff- fatalities at times- all unrelated to the RR) . The crew would use road flares. AS a little kid i always thought it funny that they laid out flares and then just left them to burn in the street when they left- but thinking about it what would they do put them in their pockets- laughing.

michaelk wrote:

CNJ4104 wrote:...There must have bees a substantial trestle across the Mohingson Run basin. I've attached a pic of the Grade I took a few years ago. The view is from the Maxim to the NY&LB.

I grew up in Matawan- but I'm not that old (was 3 when moved there 1973) so don't know much about it. But older friends of mine told stories of a large trestle that was back there "behind the new highschool" that they use to play on.

I think they would have been referring to the Matawan Creek Trestle (or that sewer line or water line trestle that is in the woods back there)....as far as I know, that gap was never bridged. It was a fill that was washed away in a Hurricane or major storm in the Late 50s maybe, and was never rebuilt. It was kinda useless anyway, as they had the "big" wye that they could use to access the line and the yard (maxim yard I think it was called) could be accessed by the NY and LB near where the diamond used to be. Ive read in some correspondence with an old time CNJ employee and IIRC, thats what he said happened. Ill have to double check when I get a chance.

Jtgshu wrote:

michaelk wrote:

CNJ4104 wrote:...There must have bees a substantial trestle across the Mohingson Run basin. I've attached a pic of the Grade I took a few years ago. The view is from the Maxim to the NY&LB.

I grew up in Matawan- but I'm not that old (was 3 when moved there 1973) so don't know much about it. But older friends of mine told stories of a large trestle that was back there "behind the new highschool" that they use to play on.

I think they would have been referring to the Matawan Creek Trestle (or that sewer line or water line trestle that is in the woods back there)....as far as I know, that gap was never bridged. It was a fill that was washed away in a Hurricane or major storm in the Late 50s maybe, and was never rebuilt. It was kinda useless anyway, as they had the "big" wye that they could use to access the line and the yard (maxim yard I think it was called) could be accessed by the NY and LB near where the diamond used to be. Ive read in some correspondence with an old time CNJ employee and IIRC, thats what he said happened. Ill have to double check when I get a chance.

I never saw it with my own 2 eyes nor really understood that a yard was even there till just now. So I don't know for sure but-

I'm fairly certain there was a railroad trestle. The guy I learned it from was telling me a story about something else and he said something about thr railtoad trestle. All I knew growing up was the trestle over lake matawan. So I said something like "the trestle over the lake?" And he replied nope he was talking about a trestle back in the marsh behind the "new" high-school. He told me there was a big trestle back there. I never understood what he was talking about till literally I read this thread and saw the maps posted. All I knew was the wye be the station (and that basically straddled either side of the present day commuter lot accross the tracks from the new station. Made no sense to me because that area nor the rest of the freehold row was really a marsh that would need a trestle. Now that I saw the map and see there was a yard farther east from the wye I know it all clicked.

michaelk wrote:

NJTArrow2 wrote:I have a few questions about CR on the NATCO Secondary and Freehold Branch.
1.Where did the train come from?
2.How fast did it go on the NATCO Secondary?
3.How fast did it go on the Freehold Branch?
4.What was the symbol for the train?

3. it was SLOW at least in the '70's. when i was a little kid we used to walk along the train- it was so slow that we could would run up ahead and put coins on the tracks then wait for it to get smashed into the rail then leapfrog up again- the whole while the train crew yelling at us. (sorry to any one that worked the trains) Then the older kids used to really abuse the rails- there was one spot that the bigger kids would dig out a "fort" under the tracks right behind the colonial shops at rt 516/79- a good 3-4 feet of the tracks and ties hanging in the air all the time- still amazed the train could cross that. Seemed like once a year the MOW train would come along and swap some ties and them stuff a pile of ballest in the hole.

as posted above the crossing were a problem. There were never gates to my knowledge on any of the crossings. But some crossings had lights- rt 79 for sure- maybe church street in Aberdeen- dont think texas road and wilson road had. The lights rarely were operational. They might work a while then die. As years went on they were broke more and more (poles, control boxes, arms would get broke off at rt 79- the road is curved there comes into town from a higher speed limit, used to have a y intersection, blind curve with entrance to the park, etc ,etc so always had accidents that were hitting stuff- fatalities at times- all unrelated to the RR) . The crew would use road flares. AS a little kid i always thought it funny that they laid out flares and then just left them to burn in the street when they left- but thinking about it what would they do put them in their pockets- laughing.

Thanks,did the rails really really sag at the spot where the kids dug out the roadbed?

NJTArrow2 wrote:

michaelk wrote:

NJTArrow2 wrote:I have a few questions about CR on the NATCO Secondary and Freehold Branch.
1.Where did the train come from?
2.How fast did it go on the NATCO Secondary?
3.How fast did it go on the Freehold Branch?
4.What was the symbol for the train?

3. it was SLOW at least in the '70's. when i was a little kid we used to walk along the train- it was so slow that we could would run up ahead and put coins on the tracks then wait for it to get smashed into the rail then leapfrog up again- the whole while the train crew yelling at us. (sorry to any one that worked the trains) Then the older kids used to really abuse the rails- there was one spot that the bigger kids would dig out a "fort" under the tracks right behind the colonial shops at rt 516/79- a good 3-4 feet of the tracks and ties hanging in the air all the time- still amazed the train could cross that. Seemed like once a year the MOW train would come along and swap some ties and them stuff a pile of ballest in the hole.

as posted above the crossing were a problem. There were never gates to my knowledge on any of the crossings. But some crossings had lights- rt 79 for sure- maybe church street in Aberdeen- dont think texas road and wilson road had. The lights rarely were operational. They might work a while then die. As years went on they were broke more and more (poles, control boxes, arms would get broke off at rt 79- the road is curved there comes into town from a higher speed limit, used to have a y intersection, blind curve with entrance to the park, etc ,etc so always had accidents that were hitting stuff- fatalities at times- all unrelated to the RR) . The crew would use road flares. AS a little kid i always thought it funny that they laid out flares and then just left them to burn in the street when they left- but thinking about it what would they do put them in their pockets- laughing.

Thanks,did the rails really really sag at the spot where the kids dug out the roadbed?

I only got close enough to watch once- scared me enough the sag it had that I didn't want to be there again.
It was a spot along gravely brook park. (If you look on Google maps you can see where 516 crosses 79 soithboung then right angles to turn by the tracks. The end of the shopping center is there. (Probably didn't help that there was a bar there that would sell packaged goods to a 15 year old back then) You can still see the path through the woods at the corner of the lot that crosses over the trail. Towards the east end often park there the row is really elevated. Might have only been 8 or 10 feet but as a kid seemed if the tracks gave way the whole train would roll on its side off the embankment.

That doesn't sound good,when did the train usually run down there?

NJTArrow2 wrote:That doesn't sound good,when did the train usually run down there?

sorry, cant recall specifics that well- I was only like 10 at the time, but i read someplace else (maybe another thread here) that it was weekly service. That sounds about right for the end of the 70's and eary 80's that i was aware. Maybe a tank car or two that was going to imperial oil (nearby tenant road in Marlboro) then a car or two for the lumber yard right off Rt 79 in Matawan (might have been for the brick/stone/pipe place accross the tracks). I dont ever recall seeing lumber cars like they do now a days (ya know the ttx cars with lumber bundles stacked on either side)- I seem to recall all box cars. Not sure if that means it was for the brick people or if that's how lumber was shipped back then. (and also might have been flat cars that i just never noticed.) I also remember there was almost always a caboose until the very end of service- it struck me that such a little train (sometimes just a car or two) needed a caboose.

Also oddly I seem to recall that the service was more frequent during the warmer months- maybe that was because the lumber or brick/stone place being construction related needed more service in warmer months? Might have been that it was less frequent than weekly in the winter. Maybe the tracks were in such poor state that winter weather affected things?

Thanks, do you have any pictures of the train?

NJTArrow2 wrote:Thanks, do you have any pictures of the train?

Sadly no. Wish I had some.

Was just a kid so I wasn't really aware of the situation Conrail and railroads in general were in- so thought it would just always be there.

Often thought of grabbing parts of the crossing lights as they would fall down or get knocked over. But didn't seem right so never did.

When was the last train you saw on the line?

NJTArrow2 wrote:When was the last train you saw on the line?

I've seen people estimate 1983. That could be about right. Might have been a little earlier. They just stopped. No fanfare or anything so not sure at all.

Oh,thanks.

OK

The crossings on the Freehold Branch while it was in operation were protected as follows.

West from Matawan.
Church St., Matawan. Bell on crossbuck.
Route 79, Freneau. Flashers.
Tennant Road, Morganville. Bell on crossbuck.
Route 79, Wickatunk. Swinging Light.
Route 537, Freehold. Swinging light.
After the branch was abandoned the Rt 520 brigde was demolished and a crossing was made and had flashers installed (Your tax dollars at work), never seeing a train and the bridge over Rt18 was built (once again, never seeing a train).

Service to Freehold ended in the early 70's when the Center St bridge was hit by a truck. From the mid 50's till the 70's there were four major bridges on the line. The trestle at Lake Matawan, the Rt 34 bridge. the steel bridge south (rr west) of Wickatunk, and the Center St bridge mentioned above. In all my correspondance with former CNJ employees the crossing of Mohingson Run between the Maxum and Mohingson Jct. was alway referred to as a fill. There WAS a trestle there at one time, as the remnants can still be seen can still be seen sticking out of Mohingsun Run for those who are interested. But I do believe that when it washed out in August of 1955 it was a fill. This gentlemen who talked about the trestle behind Matawan HS, how old was he? I don't know what timeframe he was referring to but he might have been talking about before it was filled in. I don't know when that occurred but railroads were notorius about filling in trestles needing repair.

By 1955 The Maxum had outlived its usefullness, but in earlier years it was critical to the all the other "stuff" that went on in Matawan. Freehold passenger trains laying over during mid day, mail trains switching out cars at the station, and trains to and from the Seashore Branch all made Matawan a very busy place at one time. Believe me, when I was hanging out down by the station in the 77-79 timeframe I asked myself many time what all that trackage was for. I'm slowly finding out.

CNJ4104
Scott Speed