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  • The Blackhawk Chicago - Rockford -Dubuque (split: IL Service

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1263593  by mtuandrew
 
CHTT1 wrote:
dowlingm wrote:It seems to me if you want to do the "art movie" (Chicago-Rockford AM dep, Rockford-Chicago midday dep) you should first do the "money movie" (Rockford-Chicago AM peak Chicago-Rockford PM peak). But I guess that means getting Metra to yield up slots on the MD-W plus have the Rockford service run in a timely fashion to make those slots.
Rest assured, the first schedule will be a morning run to Chicago, with an afternoon return. The second train will do the reverse. There's a lot more people in Rockford (Illinois' second biggest city), Huntley, etc. who want to go to Chicago than Chicago area residents who want to go to Rockford. Multiple trains a day, of course, would be ideal, and could develop as time goes on. Heading west to Galena and Dubuque would require the cooperation of CN, but they're an uncooperative bunch of jerks, so perhaps the state will have to find some ways to turn the screws on them.
Sounds like an golden opportunity to run Thruway coach service from Rockford to Elgin or Big Timber for the morning rush, and through-ticket on Metra. Same on the way back.
 #1263597  by Station Aficionado
 
ryanch wrote: After the previous Illinois expansion, loads of people came on here to say it was all just election year politics, and the trains would be gone in a year. Instead, it's been a very successful expansion. If Quinn wanted a cynical election year push, he'd get the train running in the election year, not the year after. "We're allocating money to run sometime the year after the election" isn't nearly as sexy to voters as you all seem to think. This seems more likely to be something he believes in and supports, and/or something people he listens to believe in.
Well, I was not one of those who panned the additional service to Carbondale, Quincy and St. Louis. But I will point out a couple of differences. The prior expansions involved additional frequencies on existing routes, and were designed to take advantage of the economies of scale and geometric ridership increases that accompany multiple frequencies; none resulted in single frequency service on a route. In contrast, the new stubbed Blackhawk plan will result, at least initially, in just a single frequency on a new route. Second, with the prior expansion, the state announced a plan, stuck to it and implemented it. It did not change routes and terminals well into the project and without warning. That, however, is exactly what is happening with the Blackhawk.

Yes, getting the train up and running before November would be a much bigger feather in Quinn's cap than service next year, and I'm sure he would start service immediately if he could. I suspect the reason he's not doing that is that it's pretty near impossible at this point. But the new services to the Quad Cities and Dubuque were supposed to be some of his signature transportation improvements. As of now, however, pretty much nothing has actually occurred with either of them--something I'm sure his GOP opponent will point out. Since he can't actually implement either service by November, a new route to Rockford in 2015 may be the only rabbit he could pull out of the hat at this late date. I'll be very happy of this eventually does result in a multiple-frequency service to at least Rockford, but I think a lot of cynicism/skepticism is warranted as of today.
 #1263600  by Zanperk
 
What is the Chicago equipment situation? Will they overnight a train set in Rockford? Otherwise, wouldn't 2x a day make more sense? Along the lines of what mtuandrew suggested, how about contracting with Metra? Make an early AM run out of Elgin, then run to Union Station, and do the reverse in the evening?
 #1263603  by ryanch
 
Station Aficionado wrote:
ryanch wrote: After the previous Illinois expansion, loads of people came on here to say it was all just election year politics, and the trains would be gone in a year. Instead, it's been a very successful expansion. If Quinn wanted a cynical election year push, he'd get the train running in the election year, not the year after. "We're allocating money to run sometime the year after the election" isn't nearly as sexy to voters as you all seem to think. This seems more likely to be something he believes in and supports, and/or something people he listens to believe in.
Well, I was not one of those who panned the additional service to Carbondale, Quincy and St. Louis. But I will point out a couple of differences. The prior expansions involved additional frequencies on existing routes, and were designed to take advantage of the economies of scale and geometric ridership increases that accompany multiple frequencies; none resulted in single frequency service on a route. In contrast, the new stubbed Blackhawk plan will result, at least initially, in just a single frequency on a new route. Second, with the prior expansion, the state announced a plan, stuck to it and implemented it. It did not change routes and terminals well into the project and without warning. That, however, is exactly what is happening with the Blackhawk.

Yes, getting the train up and running before November would be a much bigger feather in Quinn's cap than service next year, and I'm sure he would start service immediately if he could. I suspect the reason he's not doing that is that it's pretty near impossible at this point. But the new services to the Quad Cities and Dubuque were supposed to be some of his signature transportation improvements. As of now, however, pretty much nothing has actually occurred with either of them--something I'm sure his GOP opponent will point out. Since he can't actually implement either service by November, a new route to Rockford in 2015 may be the only rabbit he could pull out of the hat at this late date. I'll be very happy of this eventually does result in a multiple-frequency service to at least Rockford, but I think a lot of cynicism/skepticism is warranted as of today.
You make a great case that this isn't a good way to do it.

So it's worth pointing out I didn't say I thought it was a good way to do it. I agree that a lot skepticism is warranted. The cynicism simply isn't, for the reason I stated. This isn't a big enough deal. He got all the press he's going to get on this last week, exactly as much as any press secretary would predict. And it wasn't much at all. If he wants to be cynical, there are plenty of things he can do other than a one-off press release about a train in 2015.
 #1263611  by The EGE
 
I suspect this batch of money informs CN that they stand to gain or lose a lot more depending on their willingness to support Dubuque service. But forget Dubuque for the moment, and let's talk Rockford.

If service at 79 mph max gets you a 90-minute run over about 90 miles (60mph average), then even at 59mph this shouldn't take more than two hours (45mph average). Right now (dead of night) Google Maps says it would take me 103 minutes to drive between the two cities.

This service is going to be time-competitive with driving right off the bat, even before the upgrades. Once the first round of upgrades are done, it'll be faster in a dead heat (nevermind rush hour). And then the new rolling stock comes in. Even without higher-speed running, the extra horses on the new locomotives will shave time off the acceleration.

Even foreshortened, the Black Hawk is going to beat the pants off I-90. Yes, there will be issues with Metra and CUS scheduling. But this is an opportunity for a completely new Amtrak service between a potentially very good city pair, traffic-beating at conventional speeds. A very clear chance for Amtrak to prove its relevance and that it is worth expanding.
 #1263625  by Station Aficionado
 
Some folks are not happy about the announcement:
Genoa officials were outraged to learn that the return of a passenger rail service to Rockford no longer includes a stop in their city.
*****************
“The whole way this was handled was disgraceful,” Genoa Mayor Mark Vicary said. “We just found out about this [Thursday] night. It's a travesty, and it was taken away from us in the darkness of the night.”
 #1263811  by Station Aficionado
 
There's a bit of a confusion in the reported numbers regarding this project. The Chicago Tribune story linked above says it will cost $223 million to provide service to Rockford (I think that's all capital costs, but I'm not sure), while the Rockford Star story pegs it at $233 million. On the other hand, the Illinois DOT release says that the state will provide $60 million. That amount is close to, but actually short of, the estimated cost back in 2010 for establishing service as far as Rockford on the "northern route" (Metra/UP) route, as listed in the final IDOT report. Just as a reminder, that report (in which IDOT chose the "southern route" (CN) as the preferred alternative) states that the initial capital costs for the northern route would be more than twice that of the southern route, and that the northern route would produce about 30% lower ridership than the southern (that was based, I believe on 2x/day service).

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that actual costs in 2014-15 will be higher than the $62.3 million predicted back in 2010. I hope that they haven't gone up to $223 million or $233 million, but I think the $60 million the state is providing won't be enough. It would be nice if the state would 1) clarify the finances of the project and 2) provide some detail on what went wrong in the negotiations with CN, given that (according to the state), the southern route was far superior.
 #1264096  by Milwaukee_F40C
 
I hope they are not still committing funding to build a station in South Elgin on the IC (from this link, http://www3.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ ... cNum=12115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , on page 3 of this thread) if the routing over the UP via Big Timber is serious.

The routing over the IC all the way would have been better especially if the trains were to go west of Rockford, but CN's conditions and objections are understandable. The routing over the UP will work if the terminus is to be cut back to Rockford, and I also suspect it will most likely be the permanent end of the line if that happens.

If stops are planned for Huntley and Belvidere, the only way a place like Marengo, and even less likely Union, would ever get a station is if over time the line got additional commuter service with slower schedules- probably not going all the way to Rockford. Nobody would take a train all the way from Rockford to Chicago with Metra-style stop spacing between Rockford and Elgin.
 #1606082  by electricron
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:50 pm This thread started 12 years ago and there are still no trains. What's that tell you?
Democrats promising a new train or service which they cannot deliver. Another overpromise just to get elected. As always, no money for a government supported service means no service.
 #1606088  by quincunx
 
Sounds like CN wasn't keen to the idea.

StreetsBlog Chicago - IDOT’s multiyear plan supports intercity rail, bus-on-shoulder… and lots of driving projects
Amtrak and IDOT originally planned to restore Black Hawk Amtrak service, which used to connect Chicago to Rockford, Freeport, and Galena, northwest Illinois, plus Dubuque, Iowa. But issues with Canadian National, which owns the tracks they were hoping to use, led them to pursue an alternative route to Rockford, using Metra’s Milwaukee District West Line tracks and the Union Pacific tracks west of Elgin. Since there is no non-CN route to the destinations further west, that part of the plan is suspended indefinitely. Tridgell confirmed that, aside from funding a feasibility study, IDOT isn’t currently looking to take that route beyond Rockford.
https://chi.streetsblog.org/2022/08/29/ ... -projects/