• Steam Dome Questions on #14 and #18

  • All about the Arcade & Attica Railroad
All about the Arcade & Attica Railroad

Moderator: Benjamin Maggi

  by Benjamin Maggi
When looking at a picture of #14 and #18 next to each other, it is striking how similar they are. Especially since both have three domes and then a bell in front, before the stack. Did the railroad modify the engines to make them this way, or did both come stock that way? I have seen very few engines with THREE domes, and to have two on one small shortline is strange to me.

For better or worse, modeling it will be a tough challenge for me as it means that I I will most likely have to scratchbuild all three domes on the boiler of my engines.

Below is a photograph from the internet that shows them both:

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/county/a ... 2035mm.jpg

  by jgallaway81
Ben, in the older days, my hypothesis would be that there are two causes:

1) Our assumption of one dome comes fromthe much larger engines that were designed to only do 'work' in one direction, ie forward

2) That the bigger, later engines had sufficent technological development that they developed a dual direction sanding control system that allowed the sand valave to direct the sand to the correct pipe.

Even today, the moder diesels use twin sand bunkers, one at either end, each providing sand for the corresponding truck assembly.

As for 18 & 14, the arrangement is: Stack, Bell, sand dome, steam dome, sand dome cab.

Another interesting fact is that both units have the safety valves and whistle mounted on the dome, where as some earlier & later units used a self contained 'turret', or tapped the boiler directly. Engines like the UP 844 actually tap the superheated steam for the whistle.

As for superheating, 18 is a primative old 'soak' where as 14 was designed with a superheater. I had tried to convince the powers that be that the right thing to do was to upgrade 18 during her rebuild with new flue sheet designs and utilize the superheater header from 14 to 'repower' 18. But, of course, I got shot down. Would have made 18 more fuel efficent though.

  by Benjamin Maggi
Thanks you two for the information. Now I understand better. :-D

  by jgallaway81
Ben... it gets more interesting here....

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo ... /shs2j.htm

That is a link to the the Nation Park Services' Steamtown website... specifically to a page on ex-Lowville & Beaver River #1923.

Aside from some cosmetic discrepancies, 1923 is sister engine to 18. Both were constructed in 1920 for cuban sugar service, but never made it there.

  by Benjamin Maggi
I think the part where the Beaver Railroad retired it steamers for two 44 tonners is especially strange. Maybe all of the owners of NY shortlines got together and talked, and the President of the A&A found out about the other engine and chose to inquire as to #18. Or maybe the reverse when the A&A received #111, its first 44 tonner.

Strange indeed. That is fascinating.

  by BSOR Patarak
On another note about three domes, Jason covered it well about the reverse sand and the second dome. The A&A's two steamers (14 & 18) were both always a "short line" locomotive. They never went through class 1 operations and were both ordered with the three domes. In fact, 14 had a special order to have the steam dome of larger size. Perhaps this was to facilitate easier maintenance in the boiler (to access throttle body etc.) or for more steam accessories off the dome.

Keep in mind that generally shortlines had less terminal facilities that the class 1s. With this said, often there was less access to turntables and wyes. Also, shortline engines spent more time in switching service and less in moving trains, so the need for reverse moves was much greater.

The A&A actually had a wye at both ends of the line. Trips were made to Attica forward, the locomotive turned via Erie connections and run forward back to Arcade. However, even their earliest steam locomotives had three domes. Not all mind you, as some did come from the class 1s. Engine #7 as an example came from the BR&P and came with two domes. For a short period after 1939 or so, a third dome was added. Most likely the dome was borrowed from one of the older engines after it was retired.

Another interesting note was that the tender from #1, which was one of the larger ones they had, also was transfered between locomotives. It rode behind at least a couple of them. I believe they took on water at Arcade in the morning, then again at Varysburg on the return trip from Attica.