Southwest Chief on the Ground in MO

rohr turbo wrote:Has anyone seen a report whether the dump truck got stuck on the crossing (clearance issue, etc.) or was the truck driving just fine and ran the crossing?

The latest I saw (which may or may not be current) the STB was investigating both possibilities but had not yet arrived at a conclusion.

FWIW - In a case where a truck becomes stuck on a high crossing, obviously the first thing the driver does is look for an approaching train. He MIGHT stay and try to move, but more likely he would exit the truck immediately if at all possible. You can do your own figuring from there.

Another point for consideration. The train was eastbound, there were 2 tracks and the train was on the south track. The left front of the locomotive struck the rear of the dump truck - not speculation, see the NTSB video I linked above, and read the remarks of the NTSB chairwoman. So if the rear of the truck was on the south track, the cab would seem to have been on or perhaps just past the north track, in other words mostly on the level. Again, you can do your own figuring from there.

BR&P wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:17 pmSo we need to avoid in-depth discussion of railroad events because it might lead to conspiracy theories? Surely you jest.

There is nothing funny about people posting speculation as fact. Left unchecked we don't have an "in depth discussion". We have a whole bunch of people jumping in to the most popular threads to either stir up trouble or draw attention to themselves ... not to have a rational discussion of anything. Deal with facts not conjecture.

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:47 pmHas anyone seen a report whether the dump truck got stuck on the crossing (clearance issue, etc.) or was the truck driving just fine and ran the crossing?

The BNSF and Amtrak suit against the trucking company has two claims. One relates to the clearance over the crossing and one relates to failure to stop for the crossing (IIRC there are 20 claims in the suit, scroll back a page or two for the news story link). I do not recall seeing any news stories about the truck being stuck on the track.

justalurker66 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:52 pm

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:01 amRather hard to flatten out here. The grade supports drainage in our rainstorms.

Define "flat". A garage floor seems flat but should have an up to 1/2 inch pitch toward a drain or the door so water doesn't pool. A driveway would have a deeper pitch to keep water away from the building. Roads are built with crowns that allow water to run off to the sides. Most people probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between absolutely flat (as measured with a level) and one with a slight slope.

Many driveways in the 4 counties of Long Island go downhill towards the garage - and hopefully there are working drains just outside those garages! Part of why I picked the house I did 29 years ago is that my driveway goes downhill away from our house!

Here is a link to the current USGS TOPO quadrangle
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/ht-bin/tv_browse ... 32ca2ddb51

This link is to an older map. Note the spot elevations. A 2 foot change in elevation across several miles is flat for railroad purposes.
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/ht-bin/tv_browse ... 6d07542826

There is nothing funny about people posting speculation as fact. Left unchecked we don't have an "in depth discussion". We have a whole bunch of people jumping in to the most popular threads to either stir up trouble or draw attention to themselves ... not to have a rational discussion of anything. Deal with facts not conjecture.

Well, against all published vague guidance I "speculate" that the Train and the Truck where (for at least a very brief moment in time) at the same physical location (around or about a certain railroad grade crossing with a somewhat paved road).

I further "speculate" that Newton's Physical Laws postulate that bad things happen when moving masses arrive at the same place at the same time. Look up the theory of inelastic collisions (verified many times over the last centuries) for non-conjectural examples of the results.

Are you postulating that my speculation (based on the clearly observed reduction of large masses to "wee tiny little bits") of two masses arriving at the same location at the same time is non-factual and merely a conjecture ???

Shirley You Jest, and stop calling me Shirley.....

Lighten up....

Despite your idiotic tone you are stating facts and lying about it being speculation.

KANSAS CITY STAR article stating brush limited visibility, which had been reported prior to the crash.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/m ... 34528.html

Yeah but all of us have been at a crossing and heard the horn of an approaching train and knew it was coming even if we couldn't see it yet. I hear CSX blowing for crossing miles away from my home everyday. You know a train is coming. It's kind of impossible not to.

Do we know if brus might limit auto visibility but not trucker.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:39 pm Yeah but all of us have been at a crossing and heard the horn of an approaching train and knew it was coming even if we couldn't see it yet. I hear CSX blowing for crossing miles away from my home everyday. You know a train is coming. It's kind of impossible not to.

But were you driving a large, noisy dump truck with a large diesel probably poorly muffled, or a quiet, modern car, windows down, where most of what you would hear would be a loco? A big, probably worn out old diesel would likely be much louder than a loco some distance down the track regardless of it's being at nearly 90mph. The truck is struggling to get across the tracks.

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:31 pm Do we know if brus might limit auto visibility but not trucker.

It doesn't sound like height of the driver is the issue in visibility, though it's also not at all clear - in fact, no way to know whether the driver was looking or doing anything else but struggling to get his truck across those tracks. And my GUESS is that the cross bucks and stop sign meant little to most drivers.

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:31 pm Do we know if brus might limit auto visibility but not trucker.

Doesn't matter. Both are seated over the brush. The only limiting factor would be how far they would be to each other. The train and the dump truck would be hidden from each other about 7 miles out due to the curvature of the Earth. This gets into timing of events. Until we get a timeline from the NTSB or a detailed timing filed in the Amtrak/BNSF lawsuit, everything is speculation.

How straight is the track there? Assuming straight, we're assuming that brush is cleared back far enough that a driver could get a clear view before pulling on to the tracks. Is it safe to assume that this train would have been running some form of headlights, possibly flashing? That, of course, would make it easier to see coming. FWIW, standing on my LIRR platform, I can see my train in the morning, under most conditions, maybe a couple miles out via it's headline (keep in mind that the track has dips). We can hear it at the next crossing - sometimes, or hear the diesel maybe a mile or two out (a couple miles direct line at night).

One wonders how well drivers are trained in remote areas where there are crossings like this. And how seriously they take things at crossings. With LIRR, I'd say it's better now than it once was because of full coverage gates. They also made it much harder to turn onto the tracks, and crossings tend to be a lot smoother.

Despite your idiotic tone you are stating facts and lying about it being speculation.

Well, until the NTSB issues an "Official Statement of Fact" that the Train and the Truck where "Officially" in the same physical location when the "alleged collision of Train bits with Truck bits occurred" then nobody should "speculate" that the Train actually struck the Truck.

Could very well be that the train suddenly decided to derail due to a track defect immediately before the Truck arrived at that location. Until the NTSB investigates all possible situations at the location in question then no "tone" is "idiotic"....

Could very well be that the track structure failed and the Train swerved off to one side of the ROW and "struck" the truck that was in fact safely clear of the ROW...

Fact: Train and Truck collided (same place same time)

Speculation: Truck was in space reserved for Train

Unknown: Did the Train derail and swerve into the space reserved for the truck ??? Could have happened...

I speculate that the Train hit an undiscovered track defect and swerved off of the railroad right of way and struck the Truck which was safely waiting clear of the RR/Road intersection for the Train to pass....

You freely speculate that the Truck was in the wrong place sans any FACTS, I speculate that the Train was in the wrong place also sans any FACTS...

This whole "I can Speculate, but you Shall Not Speculate" Game is a real HOOT...