South Carolina and Passenger Rail

No, I wasn’t especially clear, sorry.

For interurban, I mean 70-80 mph service on a private right-of-way, operating as a conventional LRV in Charlotte but with larger equipment and lower headways. It would operate on a mixed FTA and FRA regulated system like the NJT RIVERline (LRT at either end, waivered heavy rail in the middle.) Stops would be every 3-8 miles in the intermediate territory rather than every 1/4 to 1 mile in the city. I’m picturing a fully-electric system though, rather than diesel as in New Jersey and Austin.

What I meant by HSR placeholder is that in purchasing or condemning this right-of-way, the states would be in a position to buy 100’ or 150’ of land instead of only 50’. That is enough space for one, two, or three additional tracks totally separate from the Rock Hill Line.

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:53 am For interurban, I mean 70-80 mph service on a private right-of-way, operating as a conventional LRV in Charlotte but with larger equipment and lower headways. It would operate on a mixed FTA and FRA regulated system like the NJT RIVERline (LRT at either end, waivered heavy rail in the middle.) Stops would be every 3-8 miles in the intermediate territory rather than every 1/4 to 1 mile in the city. I’m picturing a fully-electric system though, rather than diesel as in New Jersey and Austin.

What I meant by HSR placeholder is that in purchasing or condemning this right-of-way, the states would be in a position to buy 100’ or 150’ of land instead of only 50’. That is enough space for one, two, or three additional tracks totally separate from the Rock Hill Line.

Who is going to buy the old railroad corridor, NC or SC? Why should the other state care? Who is going to build the future HSR line, and when?
How is a larger and faster light rail vehicle going to fit within the smaller light rail station platforms in Charlotte? The Riverline works because of time separation operations between FRA and FTA trains. Only FRA passenger trains run on the corridor. Where they run on the same tracks, they do not do so at the same time. No FRA trains works on the same tracks with FTA trains at the same time. No train has ever been certified by both the FTA and FRA. The only way for a FRA train to reach downtown Charlotte using the existing FTA light rail corridor at the same time is for there to be separate and exclusive tracks in the corridor for the FRA train and the FTA train.

There is an old, unused rail corridor between Charlotte and Rock Hill?

Where?

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:21 am
Of course, they could follow the DCTA scheme and use Stadler EPA Tier 4 certified diesel power GTWs. DCTA's GTWs are capable of max speeds of 75 mph, but are limited by DCTA to 60 mph. At least they can achieve your desired speed of 70 mph.
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/gdct0909e.pdf
Technically, these are light commuter rail trains under FRA regulations.
DCTA runs their GTWs to a DART light rail station, where passengers must transfer to a light rail train. Check out how at Trinity Mills Station on your favorite map app. The two different type of trains as far as the USDOT regulators are concerned do not share any tracks.
Which means they also must have their own maintenance facilities.
Stadler builds all their GTWs in Europe, if you need Buy America vehicles, they make diesel powered FLIRTs in Salt Lake City. TexRail uses them already. They are also FRA regulated trains.

There shouldn't be new ROWs built to use diesel equipment in 2019. Electric only from here on out.

There shouldn't be new ROWs built to use diesel equipment in 2019. Electric only from here on out.

If the cost to electrify is prohibitive, it would be better to have a Diesel powered service rather than doing nothing and having more people driving private autos. The perfect must not be the enemy of the good.

As a Charlottean, I would certainly welcome more intercity passenger service. That being said, I would expect at Charlotte to Atlanta via Greenville, S.C. to be the most likely option before a Columbia to Charlotte route is entertained.

The current Crescent has a horrible schedule between Atlanta and Charlotte, running through the
middle of the night. I rode it once about 20 years ago (the schedule was similar then), and it
is clearly NOT designed for convenient travel between these cities. If SC wants to do anything, they
would contract with Georgia and NC to run an Atlanta-Charlotte daytime train, one in each direction, morning and evening, and maybe they would get some ridership on that route. (I mean, there are more than a million people on either end). That would be an easy, low cost starter. If that got any
ridership, they could take it from there.

That would make sense, and as NC does with the Carolinian and Piedmont, be NC funded. Good luck getting GA and SC on board. But a Charlotte/ATL daylight train is a good idea.

The only prospect of additional passenger rail, at least in the Charlotte-Atlanta corridor, is something like Brightline. There’s no chance that SC state government would support more passenger rail.

Apologies for duplicating info from the NCDOT thread in the Amtrak form but this might be worth noting here as well. This is from the Carolinas Assn of Passenger Trains December newsletter. Its really nothing more than talk, but so little ever happens in SC I thought I would share it:

Rail Division Director Jason Orthner says North Carolina is receptive to cooperative efforts with the South Carolina Department of Transportation on furthering the rail passenger experience in the Carolinas. Charlotte to Columbia service ideas have been shared recently between the Transportation Secretaries of both states. Both states also have interest in more frequent and higher speed service between Charlotte and Atlanta.

There are currently -rumors- (nothing more as yet) of a Columbia--Charlotte intercity passenger route being discussed by regional transportation planners. The people involved in the discussions are saying very little about this in order to ‘protect the discussion’ but they indicate that the talks have more traction than in the past. This could be connected to NS’ change of heart on their Charlotte O-Line tracks up to Winston.

IMO, there might be ‘discussions’ happening, but this is still South Carolina so I am not optimistic about anything playing out. This also seems like weird timing given the route identification grants (SC did not submit any applications in the first round IIRC).