• Snow Junction - Remsen North

  • Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by Cactus Jack
Can anyone identify when SNOW or Snow Junction showed up either on NYC, PC or Conrail ?

The location is north of Remsen, at the juntion of the St. Lawrence & Adirondack Divisions north of Utica, NY.

The original interface between these two lines was at Remsen, NY until a track project consolidated the St. Lawrence Division main to Watertown onto the ADK Division tracks to Montreal / Lake Placid into a single right of way for a short stretch.

When was the relocation done ?

And at what time did the name SNOW come about to designate that Block Limit Station ?

I would think about the time the CT-401 operating rules came into effect with the block limit station signs which was a PRR? or NYC thing ? - implemented here after CR ??

Does Mr. Lustig or Mr. Carey have any input here ?
  by Jack Shufelt
Snow Junction was never a NYCRR location. Jack
  by Noel Weaver
I seem to think that Snow Block Station came on the scene when the old Adirondack Railroad went in to operation for the 1980 Olympics at Lake Placid. They had trackage rights to run over Conrail between Utica and Remsen.
Noel Weaver
  by R Paul Carey
The switch and Block Limit Station "SNOW" were in place by 1987, when I was appointed Division Superintendent of the M-H Division, so, I would second Noel Weaver's view the change was most likely made as part of the preparations for the Adirondack Railroad (for the 1980 Winter Olympics).
  by Cactus Jack
Indeed the SNOW block limit station was there in 1979-80 as I was a trainmen on the line from Utica to Lake Placid. Our guys were not yet qualified over CR at the time of the Olympics and we ran CR pilots. By Summer of 1980 we ran our own guys without pilots. There was a phone booth there with a little shelter of sorts to protect from the weather. I am not sure when the operating rules for those block limit signs was instituted, and memory fails me remembering where and what the other BLS's were from there into Utica at that time.

I am just not sure when SNOW came about, replacing Remsen North. Remsen North seems to date back to the Winter of 1962 - 63 from what I can tell and understand from those with ETT's of that era ... but if anyone has a definitive date of when that track changeover was made that info would be appreciated.

Thanks for the replies so far.
  by Jack Shufelt
Remsen North first appeared in ETT No. 13 of April 28, 1963, page 80. Jack
  by Jack Shufelt

NYCRR drawing revision of 1-1-1968 shows the following chaining's and mile posts at the "Junction" north of Remsen.
Chaining 119+940 MP 22.72 Beginning of Odgensburg Branch.
Chaining 153+582 MP 29.09 Adirondack Branch.
Remsen was at mileage 21.33.

In Adirondack Division ETT No. 31A of June 29, 1930 Remsen was mileage 27.67.

In St. Lawrence Division ETT No. 31A of June 29, 1930 Remsen was mileage 21.33.

The distance from Remsen to the Junction was 1.42 miles.

  by Cactus Jack
Thank you Jack Shufelt for information provided.
Much appreciated !
  by Noel Weaver
Following is from Conrail timetables no. 7, dated May 19, 1974 and no. 1 dated June 18, 1978. Remsen North was located at MP 22.7. Snow was located at MP 22.7, same thing. Snow was established by GO 106, dated October 27, 1979 although it might have been established a bit before that by Bulletin Order but I don't have a record of that. .
Interesting stuff.
Noel Weaver
  by Cactus Jack
I think October 27, 1979 is the date, I would not think that change would be part of a bulletin order, but would have to come under a General Order... but in any case the GO would have made it official in a permanent sense.

Thanks for all the help guys !

Does the GO indicate any changes in operating rules ?