Silver "Express" or Silver "Limited" Service

IMO a new Floridian ( extra train) is a great idea, However, let us be realistic. CSX has too much single track now from Richmond - MIA. A quick Floridian is going to be hung up by various IM, general merchandise trains, & Unit trains. All those trains are mostly limited to 50 MPH MAX speeds. A Floridian cannot get around them quick enough at 79 MPH. Remember the ACL "A" line which is most of the way was often carded at 100 MAX speeds with many sections of 2 main tracks. Distance was 1386 miles. Still it took 25:10 both ways.

AT an average today of 50 MPH that takes` 28 hours today. 55 MPH takes 25:10. 60 MPH takes 23 :00. an. Now if most of the line was 2 Main tracks with most slow sections eliminated then maybe some what better? Now I will admit that it took the ACL trains 4 hours NYP - WASH with a 20 to 25 minute turn at WASH. Then a 10 minute engine change at Richmond Broad street station and refueling stop at Florence. Savannah was skipped. A 15 minute engine change at JAX. But the Amtrak route thru Orlando is 40 miles more than FEC. So that would add 40 + minutes to the above times if any of the turns above could be reduced??

Now if a HSR rasil line ran parallel to the present tracks??? Got a multi billion wallet?


http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/con ... 2.html1386 miles by FEC

I don't think an express service would make much difference. You just can't make it fast enough to make a real difference. I mean if it took 20 hours instead of 24 (approximately) would that increase traffic at all? I doubt it.

You'd really need to do NYC->Orlando in like 14 hours with an express bus to WDW so that folks can get on in NYC, have dinner, wake up, have breakfast and then fast track to Disney (luggage goes straight to their hotel rooms.)

Honestly, I think Amtrak would be better off having more Silver service, but do make it limited. Make it 5-6 trains a day, at a cost effective rate, advertise the "see America" part of it, and you could start to leach off some airline traffic.

The trains could skip different stops at smaller locations to help with performance, but all would stop at say Orlando (again because of the Mouse) and other key stops.

This is an area I think Amtrak missed with out on by not ordering the additional Viewliners when they had the chance. The 70 additional cars could have been configured into sleeper only Silver Service trains, with say 7 cars each, 5 trains each way a day.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:29 pm This is an area I think Amtrak missed with out on by not ordering the additional Viewliners when they had the chance. The 70 additional cars could have been configured into sleeper only Silver Service trains, with say 7 cars each, 5 trains each way a day.

Well, that is the problem with additional Silver service/Floridan trains to Florida, lack of Viewliners.
As is, Amtrak is scrapping the bottom of the barrel to add one trainset to the Silver Star to make the Floridan.
Each additional frequency between New York City and Miami requires four additional trainsets. Maybe with a quicker turn around you could limit that to two additional trainsets, then again maybe not. It all depends upon the timing when the trains start and end their journeys.

What is the timeline for the rehabilitation of the s-line from Petersburg to Raleigh and how much would that help?

I think Amtrak will have completed the east river tunnel projects and either restored the Silver Star or managed to equip the Floridian with Superliners cascaded from other routes being equipped with the new LD fleet before the S Line would reopened.

ryanwc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:57 pm What is the timeline for the rehabilitation of the s-line from Petersburg to Raleigh and how much would that help?

As RandallW says, it will be more than a decade before Amtrak has through running on the S-Line. Longer if our next president has an orange hue.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:29 pm I don't think an express service would make much difference. You just can't make it fast enough to make a real difference. I mean if it took 20 hours instead of 24 (approximately) would that increase traffic at all? I doubt it.

You'd really need to do NYC->Orlando in like 14 hours with an express bus to WDW so that folks can get on in NYC, have dinner, wake up, have breakfast and then fast track to Disney (luggage goes straight to their hotel rooms.)

Okay, I can see a fully branded "Disney Train" consist like that, with Disney investing into new branded Viewliner equipment, Disney selling the trip-and-stay, Amtrak running the train on tracks and Disney having some character actors for the ride. I just can't see them being able to afford it right now.

Honestly, I think Amtrak would be better off having more Silver service, but do make it limited. Make it 5-6 trains a day, at a cost effective rate, advertise the "see America" part of it, and you could start to leach off some airline traffic.

The trains could skip different stops at smaller locations to help with performance, but all would stop at say Orlando (again because of the Mouse) and other key stops.

This is an area I think Amtrak missed with out on by not ordering the additional Viewliners when they had the chance. The 70 additional cars could have been configured into sleeper only Silver Service trains, with say 7 cars each, 5 trains each way a day.

I looked at the schedule and can see two more round trips, a Silver Galaxy and a Silver Quasar (continuing a celestial body theme): a pre-breakfast and a post-dinner departure from NYC. These can be limited stop expresses.

In general for LD, I can see any daily line going two RT's a day... but the issues with that are outside the scope of this thread.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 8:33 am In general for LD, I can see any daily line going two RT's a day... but the issues with that are outside the scope of this thread.

The issue is not beyond the scope of this thread. Adding just one additional round trip means finding 4 new non-existing train sets. The Silver Star used to require 4, the Silver Meteor required 4, your space based train will also require 4, and your second space based train will also require 4.
Amtrak does not have 4, or 8, additional Viewliner train sets today, and aren't ordering any more soon.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 8:33 am

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:29 pm I don't think an express service would make much difference. You just can't make it fast enough to make a real difference. I mean if it took 20 hours instead of 24 (approximately) would that increase traffic at all? I doubt it.

You'd really need to do NYC->Orlando in like 14 hours with an express bus to WDW so that folks can get on in NYC, have dinner, wake up, have breakfast and then fast track to Disney (luggage goes straight to their hotel rooms.)

Okay, I can see a fully branded "Disney Train" consist like that, with Disney investing into new branded Viewliner equipment, Disney selling the trip-and-stay, Amtrak running the train on tracks and Disney having some character actors for the ride. I just can't see them being able to afford it right now.

Honestly, I think Amtrak would be better off having more Silver service, but do make it limited. Make it 5-6 trains a day, at a cost effective rate, advertise the "see America" part of it, and you could start to leach off some airline traffic.

The trains could skip different stops at smaller locations to help with performance, but all would stop at say Orlando (again because of the Mouse) and other key stops.

This is an area I think Amtrak missed with out on by not ordering the additional Viewliners when they had the chance. The 70 additional cars could have been configured into sleeper only Silver Service trains, with say 7 cars each, 5 trains each way a day.

I looked at the schedule and can see two more round trips, a Silver Galaxy and a Silver Quasar (continuing a celestial body theme): a pre-breakfast and a post-dinner departure from NYC. These can be limited stop expresses.

In general for LD, I can see any daily line going two RT's a day... but the issues with that are outside the scope of this thread.

Funny you mention Disney, I've made that exact same suggestion in the past. The problem of course is time keeping, but perhaps Disney can help pay a premium to keep the trains on-time. But yes, I can see families paying a premium to get on a Disney themed train in NYC or DC, dinner with Mickey, bedtime stories from Donald Duck and waking up with Breakfast with a fairy princess and then debarking in Orlando and being whisked right to the House of the Mouse.

But so far, no calls from Disney to me on this.

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:43 am The issue is not beyond the scope of this thread. Adding just one additional round trip means finding 4 new non-existing train sets. The Silver Star used to require 4, the Silver Meteor required 4, your space based train will also require 4, and your second space based train will also require 4.
Amtrak does not have 4, or 8, additional Viewliner train sets today, and aren't ordering any more soon.

I meant in general. Double the Cap Limited. Double the Lake Shore Limited. Bump the Cardinal to double every day. Anything that IS overnight, the minimum is double every day. Yes, even the Southwest Chief, the Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, City of New Orleans, the Silvers, the Crescent. Guess what that's going to take? Equipment Amtrak doesn't have (yet), track capacity that shouldn't have been removed in the first place, slots from very uncooperate freight rail lines, and TONS and TONS of money.

But we've said that to death, so let's move on.

Greg Moore wrote: Funny you mention Disney, I've made that exact same suggestion in the past. The problem of course is time keeping, but perhaps Disney can help pay a premium to keep the trains on-time. But yes, I can see families paying a premium to get on a Disney themed train in NYC or DC, dinner with Mickey, bedtime stories from Donald Duck and waking up with Breakfast with a fairy princess and then debarking in Orlando and being whisked right to the House of the Mouse.

But so far, no calls from Disney to me on this.

Don't wait up. With how things have been going with Disney financially (and yes, I've been tracking a bit of the entertainment and games industry), I doubt the idea will get implemented anytime "soon". More likely "if ever."

Well..... I'm not so sure Amtrak is a brand Disney wants to be associated with, and for some, the flip side may also be true.

When admission to the parks topped $100 per day per person (not including upgrades to FastPass or whatever it's called now), Disney simply became unaffordable to a lot of people. It's cheaper for some families to take a cruise than it is to spend three or four days at the theme parks.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:23 pm I meant in general. Double the Cap Limited. Double the Lake Shore Limited. Bump the Cardinal to double every day. Anything that IS overnight, the minimum is double every day. Yes, even the Southwest Chief, the Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, City of New Orleans, the Silvers, the Crescent. Guess what that's going to take? Equipment Amtrak doesn't have (yet), track capacity that shouldn't have been removed in the first place, slots from very uncooperate freight rail lines, and TONS and TONS of money.

But we've said that to death, so let's move on.

Doubling every Superliner and Viewliner long distance trains will mean doubling Amtrak's rolling stock of Superliners, Viewliners, and Amfleet 2s. Today, Amtrak has 380 Superliners, 171 Viewliners, and 139 Amfleet 2s.
CAF was building at a rate of 2 Viewliners per month, So it would take CAF 7 more years to build another 171 Viewliners. Siemens is average 2 trains per month, with each train having an average 5 cars, 1 locomotive, and 1 cab car. So that's 2 locomotives and 12 cars per month. So it will take Siemens slightly more than 1 year to match the existing Amfleet 2 fleet. Let's assume whoever is building the Superliners matches Siemens speed, it will take that vendor less than 3 years to match the existing Superliner fleet. If at CAF speeds, almost 16 years.
And during these years, Horizon cars will need to be replaced.
It will take more than just $money$ to double Amtrak's fleet, it will also take TIME.

The closest you will ever get to a "last mile" connection to the mouse is if this Sunrail/Brightline Sunshine Corridor ends up having a stop near Disney Springs. Down the road if all goes to plan one may be able to get off aa Amtrak train at Orlando station, and switch to a SunRail train to head to Disney.