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electricron wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:35 pm [electrification over 54 miles of track.

There is a valid economic reason why Amtrak has ordered dual mode diesel electric and electric locomotives. Good choice for NEC trains extending into Virginia and North Carolina, and saving an half hour on the train schedules not having to switch locomotives in DC.

Saving a half hour is just a dream. The use of just one entrance/ exit just will jam up the escalator / stairs. If passenger loads increase you will find the older passengers cannot exit quick enough to then allow oldsters to board. Plus how many times will locos need to be swapped.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:52 am Perhaps, but there's an argument to be made that with post roads being a constitutional obligation in the US, funding for public highways is Constitutionally required.

Public transit is not Constitutionally obligated. It's a convenience driven largely by urbanization, but not necessity.

Without public transit, road congestion, already bad, would be far worse, and many who don't have cars would not be able to work. And air pollution would be far worse in many areas.

Transit is a major necessity.

The state of Virginia bought "half" of the CSX/RF&P right-of-way between DC and Petersburg. I never figured out if that half is a linear split or segments of the corridor. But there's a pretty picture here of freight/pax separation: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/vi ... nitiative/

The ROW is good for 4 tracks, except in............ Ashland.

The straight-shot NS track from outside Suffolk to outside Petersburg is limited to 79mph I'm pretty sure, and I don't know if there are plans to negotiate that higher. There are grade level crossings in those towns that the wife of the president of the old railway named after places in Sir Walter Scott novels, as the legend goes: Wakefield, Waverly, and several others. The southern elite's love for Scott was unfortunately tied up with post-Civil-War revanchism. To the point of naming towns in places that had been populated by English speakers for centuries... but that's another matter. (Yes they were named before 1861, so it's Disputanta-ble how it plays in post-1865.) Anyway, there's no Ashland situation on the line, but plenty of at-grade crossings.

Amtrak trains generally run 73mph - 79mph on that segment.

electricron wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:35 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:15 pm Which is why I look at the long term as well. Compare the electric bill vs the diesel bill.

How many trains does it take to move 63,000 daily passengers vs 19,000 daily passengers? Three times as much at a minimum. Whatever savings you will get from using electric power vs diesel power, assuming there were any, you'll get three times less overall savings with VRE vs Caltrain.

The point I'm trying to make is ridership numbers affect whatever savings you will get with electrification, and I do not think 20,000 daily riders is sufficient to warrant the capital costs of electrification over 54 miles of track.

I am not even sure 63,000 daily riders is sufficient, but I am less worried with Caltrain because eventually CHSR trains will be using the electrification infrastructure as well.

There is a valid economic reason why Amtrak has ordered dual mode diesel electric and electric locomotives. Good choice for NEC trains extending into Virginia and North Carolina, and saving an half hour on the train schedules not having to switch locomotives in DC.

Bear in mind, I'm talking about every 20 minute regional service,including weekends,not commuter service.
I imagine ridership would be a lot more, and also, what would have more maintenance costs? Dmu, or emu

kitchin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:50 am The straight-shot NS track from outside Suffolk to outside Petersburg is limited to 79mph I'm pretty sure, and I don't know if there are plans to negotiate that higher. There are grade level crossings in those towns that the wife of the president of the old railway named after places in Sir Walter Scott novels, as the legend goes: Wakefield, Waverly, and several others. The southern elite's love for Scott was unfortunately tied up with post-Civil-War revanchism. To the point of naming towns in places that had been populated by English speakers for centuries... but that's another matter. (Yes they were named before 1861, so it's Disputanta-ble how it plays in post-1865.) Anyway, there's no Ashland situation on the line, but plenty of at-grade crossings.

Amtrak trains generally run 73mph - 79mph on that segment.

Its 54 miles of 79mph, but likely not worth cost of upgrading road crossings , and NS has no reason to upgrade to class 5

Getting back a bit more on topic... a couple of thoughts come to mind.

First, we're going to have a lot of Amfleet 1/2 cars. Very likely, these are going to be corridor service cars... but just as a thought experiment, what if you could turn a set of them into a LD overnight/multinight set. Same shell, but sleeper/diner/lounge sets. "Speedliner" maybe?

Second (and related), what would happen to all the Superliners? They'd get rebuilt?

The Amfleet cars would make sense for their use as intern equipment for the new routes proposed under the ConnectUS plan until newer rolling stock can be ordered, built, tested, and delivered for those routes.

On a somewhat similar note, are the Midwest and California Ventures still testing or are they all stored?

Anthony wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:40 pm
The Amfleet cars would make sense for their use as intern equipment for the new routes proposed under the ConnectUS plan until newer rolling stock can be ordered, built, tested, and delivered for those routes.

That plan has merit. To expand. As the Siemens cars fill out trains using Amfleets the Amfleets can be assigned to new services. Then if the route(s) they are on prove viable move the next shipments o Siemens onto the route and move Amfleets to another route or if Amtrak finally has more bookings on present trains use the Amfleets for shorts.m

I would think the cost of an overhaul to get another 5-10 years out of them, will mean they become razor blades. 1's at least.

These cars aren't compatible with current law in terms of door and window size. Unlikely that they go through any sort of major refit before being withdrawn from service.

So the 1's are razor blades. How about the 2's? Are they good for corridor service?

All of the Amfleet, ones and twos need to retire. Amtrak is having to fabricate their own parts for these rolling museums. If you have to reuse equipment, it would be the Horizon fleet since they are newer. Imagine mothballing these 50 year old cars, better to let them retire and be razor blades, they did their job, and Amtrak got their money's worth out of them.

Regarding the Superliners, I bet Amtrak just remodels them and postpones the "what do we do with LD trains" argument further in the future.

I keep asking the question. How is it that AM-2s have more mileage than -1s but -1s are being scheduled for retirements? If you have a 2018 chevy with 200k miles and exact same model 2014 kept inside only has 100k miles both kept inside fair running condition which would you probably replace?

I know have not found the mileage records that used to be on Amtrak site. Of course there are some of both types that have been banged up with same percentage more AM-1s are probably going to scrapper.