• SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by rcthompson04
 
Franklin Square is a townhouse development by the Wawa station.

There is a decent amount of development occurring near the SEPTA stations on the Paoli-Thorndale Line. Exton has several apartment and condo buildings now within walking distance of the train station. Downingtown is being moved to be right beside a condo development. Malvern had two large apartment buildings go up right down the road from the station. A large building just opened in Paoli. One is under construction right beside Berwyn. There are others closer to the city.

I don’t think there too many infill station possibilities that would not be massive park and ride facilities.
  by JeffK
 
PHLSpecial wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:42 am If we are building these rail projects let's upzone the area around the stations, connect it with buses and more bike parking. Park and rides need to go away in favor of mixed use TOD. The renderings for KOP rail seem to support parking around the stations and makes it difficult to walk or bike to the office parks since there is no sidewalks and bike paths.
A number of us made that point at the last couple of public meetings. There's now at least a nod to those concerns on the project website. Some of the dog & pony boards showed improved sidewalk and bike path access versus what appears in the earlier renderings and animations.

Even so I agree that they're not paying enough attention to TOD.
  by rcthompson04
 
I only see two parking garages in the renderings with the rest of the parking already existing. Some of the renderings reference future development, which is probably contingent on this line existing or not. I am not really a believer in "build it and they will come", but in this case I can see it having a chance.

My problem with the parking garages is simple. Does anyone really expect that kind of park and ride volume from this line? If the Phoenixville extension is done, wouldn't that soak up a lot of the riders at the First Ave/Moore station? Henderson Road falls into the same bucket as well. If you can drive to Henderson Road to get on the NHSL, which requires a connection to Center City via the MFL, why wouldn't you drive to a nearby Regional Rail station (Norristown in particular)? You are literally 5 minutes from Norristown TC at that location.
  by JeffK
 
I don't know why the linked page doesn't show the detailed drawings presented at the May 3 dog & pony. There were graphics (but not full renderings) showing how the surrounding roads would be reconfigured for better non-auto access.

That said, as a guy who's spent years annoying local officials about bike paths, the graphics showed the same core problem as every other local plan for non-auto connections. Access AT the target locations may be improved, but "access to the access" is still lacking. I.e. all the improvements at a station are meaningless if you can't walk or bike to them from where you live or work. No one's going to drive 80% of the distance to a station, then walk/bike the remaining 1000 feet.

Unfortunately filling those gaps isn't in SEPTA's purview; the township and possibly the county have to get involved. Not holding my breath.
rcthompson04 wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:36 am My problem with the parking garages is simple. Does anyone really expect that kind of park and ride volume from this line? If the Phoenixville extension is done, wouldn't that soak up a lot of the riders at the First Ave/Moore station? Henderson Road falls into the same bucket as well. If you can drive to Henderson Road to get on the NHSL, which requires a connection to Center City via the MFL, why wouldn't you drive to a nearby Regional Rail station (Norristown in particular)? You are literally 5 minutes from Norristown TC at that location.
At least given pre-pandemic usage, I think there will be more parking demand. King Manor (or whatever SEPTA's calling it this week) was often full by 8 am, similar at Gulph Mills. Plus cars were regularly parked along roads adjoining Hughes Park which has no dedicated parking area.

I can understand why there are riders who'd opt for the NHSL/MFL transfer.

> Access: Despite the MFL's less than luxurious service it offers many more city stops than the RRD. E.g. at two different public meetings officials from the University City area said they were hearing from employees that they welcomed improved access from K of P. Using the MFL's 34th Street stop puts them closer to offices and labs than walking from 30th St. Station. The MFL also offers access to parts of Philly's historic district. It's common for visitors to stay at a K of P hotel, then make day trips to Valley Forge and Independence Mall. The extension would give them transit access to the 2nd St.-8th St. section of the city. (FWIW that's not anecdotal; I have a family member who's worked at both parks and is familiar with visitor travel patterns)

> Cost: With a Key card the NHSL/MFL is $2 per trip. The RRD is at least double that figure. It's well known that a good chunk of SEPTA's ridership is very price sensitive. Heck, even when I was working and making a pretty decent salary I couldn't see spending an extra $1000+ a year for RRD fares and parking versus the NHSL.

> Frequency: RRD service out of Norristown is reasonable only at rush hour. Off-peak is usually once per hour. The NHSL's headways are usually no worse than 20 minutes well into the evening. Again a FWIW, that frequency was another selling point when I worked in town. If anything kept me later than say 5:45 my RRD options thinned out quickly. By comparison I might only have to wait an additional 10 minutes for the NHSL.
  by scotty269
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10 ... 3797645864

Image
SEPTA had qualification training for crews for the new Elwyn to Wawa extension on the Media-Elwyn regional rail line. Silverliner V #701 and #713 are at the new Middletown Station at Wawa Pennsylvania on June 26, 2022. The start of new passenger train service to Wawa is expected to start on August 21, 2022.
  by scotty269
 
scotty269 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:05 pm https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10 ... 3797645864

Image
SEPTA had qualification training for crews for the new Elwyn to Wawa extension on the Media-Elwyn regional rail line. Silverliner V #701 and #713 are at the new Middletown Station at Wawa Pennsylvania on June 26, 2022. The start of new passenger train service to Wawa is expected to start on August 21, 2022.
Dead link. Fixing!

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10 ... n__=%2CO*F

Image
  by rcthompson04
 
Great to see crews qualifying out to Wawa. I wonder where Wawa pulls ridership from initially. I presume some stations further east on the line, but I would presume some Paoli Thorndale and Wilmington riders as well.
  by rcthompson04
 
I could see it pulling some traffic off the 111 and 119.
  by scratchyX1
 
I'm assuming there is going to be new bus stops for those 30minute service routes? With new pedestrian crossings?
Right now, it looks like there are no sidewalks in the area, not even a bus stop for WAWA world HQ, and the nearest crosswalk and bustop (shelterless concrete slab in intersection) is .5 miles away. Not inviting for the housing development being built right next door to the station.
  by rcthompson04
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:13 am I'm assuming there is going to be new bus stops for those 30minute service routes? With new pedestrian crossings?
Right now, it looks like there are no sidewalks in the area, not even a bus stop for WAWA world HQ, and the nearest crosswalk and bustop (shelterless concrete slab in intersection) is .5 miles away. Not inviting for the housing development being built right next door to the station.
There are sidewalks to the nearby townhouse development and the bus stop at the same traffic light.
  by ryan92084
 
This popped up for me yesterday.
A recent vote by borough council cemented a resolution that allows the Railroad Restoration Committee to seek funding to reestablish service from Wawa, Delaware County, to West Chester. They call the plan the Metro Concept.
“It’s a less costly and more achievable approach to returning rail service using battery-operated cars, and what we’d like to do is lease the cars for two years as a pilot project to show that we can attract riders,” said Jo Ann Kelton, chairperson of the Railroad Restoration Committee.
https://whyy.org/articles/west-chester- ... l-service/
https://west-chester.com/430/Rail-Service-Restoration
Image
  by rcthompson04
 
I don't know how you get a new service running for $14 million at 4 stations. None of the proposed stations are ADA compliant and have minimal parking if any. This seems like the West Chester Borough Council being way in over their head.
  by PHLSpecial
 
Battery powered trains? Can't see that going too well.

Agreed about the price tag as well for redoing the stations. West Chester would would need bus bays as well I would think besides just empty parking lots
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