SEPTA Expression of Interest Silverliner VI procurement

Seems like SEPTA is interested in procuring Silverliner VI's for the future
Just an Interest and not an actual bid.

https://wwww.septa.org/procurement/bids ... ocurement/

From this page it seems like they want single level EMUs along with either having married pairs and triple pairs.

https://wwww.septa.org/wp-content/uploa ... INAL-2.pdf

Rotem was a failure on the prior order, so I don't see them coming back on the next single level MU series.

Kawasaki's M-8 might be a choice, if modified to handle low platforms. Although they closed their (Rochelle) plant
and are no longer under "Buy America", I like Nippon-Sharyo's single level DMU on UP Express and be appealing as an EMU. Even the C end (trailer cabs) resemble the Silverliner V.

The first Silverliner IVs, the Reading single units, turned 50 in late 2023.

If the M-8 design could be altered to allow for low level boarding then they’ve got a proven model to build upon. The LIRR had that 4-car turbine train that was based off of the M-1 design and had low level boarding capability.


Why they’re looking into “triplex” cars is a mystery. There’s a reason Metro-North and ConnDOT went back to A + B paired cars after their experience with the M-4 and M-6 cars.

I wholeheartedly believe that this RFI will lead its way from single level, to the Bombardier Multilevel EMU being developed for NJT.

Would hope that car electrical system will be compatible with both 25 and 60 hZ power. As well tap changing transformers for both 11/ 12 / 12,5 kV and 25 kV. Also, AC traction motors with regeneration.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:06 pm If the M-8 design could be altered to allow for low level boarding then they’ve got a proven model to build upon. The LIRR had that 4-car turbine train that was based off of the M-1 design and had low level boarding capability.


Why they’re looking into “triplex” cars is a mystery. There’s a reason Metro-North and ConnDOT went back to A + B paired cars after their experience with the M-4 and M-6 cars.

I think a design based off the M-8 would actually be perfect with some tweaking to SEPTA standards and liking. I've always felt like they would be ideal on SEPTA RAILROAD. The cars are sleek and i think they have full-width cabs which SEPTA seems to want i believe for this procurement.

Septa should get a single level EMU but if they were to get one I suggest they choose something other an M8 since I like to see every authority have something different than having a slightly modified M8 in their territory.

Since they opting for 3 car EMU I can see a 3 car variant of this one instead for Septa and they should get a Silverliner like this one but a 85 ft version of it for Regional Rail and the Manufacturer is Hitachi Rail with the Family name Hitachi A-train. This builder does build trains for agencies worldwide and I say that this is a perfect fit for Septa.

Everyone: SEPTA is FINALLY starting to enter the planning stage to place an order for Silverliner Six MU cars...
This is something that SEPTA should have begun at least 15 years ago after the Fives were all in service and
the older fleet retired in 2012 - even if an order was placed right now for 220 cars - to replace the now 48-49
and 50 (The Reading Singles 9018-9031 are the first and oldest cars in the fleet) Fours one for one the time
line looks to be at least three to five years before a single car gets built - let alone accepted and tested then
finally placed in service in 2029-2030...At that point the Fives will be reaching their mid-life overhaul years.
It will be interesting to see how the Fours hold up entering their fifth decade of service for SEPTA RRD...

From reading the proposal SEPTA is looking for a similar MU car type as the Fives - married pairs and/or
single cars will offer the most flexibility for SEPTA's operation on short mileage routes with stations that
are close together to one another...Three car units look to be impractical for SEPTA RRD operations...

With a cost of $2.5 million per car this order will be in the range of $550 million dollars as an example...

With the mention of money SEPTA's number one problem can NOT be ignored - averting the "Fiscal Cliff"
that looms ahead later this year and into 2025...Fare hikes and service cutbacks are already mentioned...
These problems WILL affect SEPTA transit service as a whole - not just RRD - and need to be dealt with...

This RRD MU car order as important as it is may end up having funding problems - further delays could end
up costing SEPTA even more money over time for this very-much needed new car fleet...MACTRAXX

At this point, the Silverliner IVs are reaching their 50th birthdays—a milestone that the Silverliner IIs and IIIs did not reach during their service lives.

It's pretty impressive that these MUs have come this far, without being loathed by the riding public. They have held up remarkably well.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:34 am Everyone: SEPTA is FINALLY starting to enter the planning stage to place an order for Silverliner Six MU cars...
This is something that SEPTA should have begun at least 15 years ago after the Fives were all in service and
the older fleet retired in 2012 - even if an order was placed right now for 220 cars - to replace the now 48-49
and 50 (The Reading Singles 9018-9031 are the first and oldest cars in the fleet) Fours one for one the time
line looks to be at least three to five years before a single car gets built - let alone accepted and tested then
finally placed in service in 2029-2030...At that point the Fives will be reaching their mid-life overhaul years.
It will be interesting to see how the Fours hold up entering their fifth decade of service for SEPTA RRD...

From reading the proposal SEPTA is looking for a similar MU car type as the Fives - married pairs and/or
single cars will offer the most flexibility for SEPTA's operation on short mileage routes with stations that
are close together to one another...Three car units look to be impractical for SEPTA RRD operations...

With a cost of $2.5 million per car this order will be in the range of $550 million dollars as an example...

With the mention of money SEPTA's number one problem can NOT be ignored - averting the "Fiscal Cliff"
that looms ahead later this year and into 2025...Fare hikes and service cutbacks are already mentioned...
These problems WILL affect SEPTA transit service as a whole - not just RRD - and need to be dealt with...

This RRD MU car order as important as it is may end up having funding problems - further delays could end
up costing SEPTA even more money over time for this very-much needed new car fleet...MACTRAXX

I am wondering what point the CRRC coaches get cancelled. Adding push pull sets would be a potential stopgap if the Silverliner IVs started giving out though.

MBTA should cancel the Red Line CRRCs. But the dozen or so cars already accepted would be orphans.

EXO has had its CRRC coaches recently delivered.

Didn't something happen between SEPTA and Kawasaki for the Silverliner V bid which made the Bid go to Hyundai Rotem? So idk if Kawasaki would be interested in bidding for the VI's.

WAG: Height shrunk Stadler Kiss. Caltrain will have them in service in a year or so, they’ll be a known unit by then, plus the advantage of being pre-debugged.


But this EOI seems to indicate SEPTA is shopping for ideas, and open to break from the ye ol tyme train model, finally.

zebrasepta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:44 pm Didn't something happen between SEPTA and Kawasaki for the Silverliner V bid which made the Bid go to Hyundai Rotem? So idk if Kawasaki would be interested in bidding for the VI's.

I think it was something along the lines of Kawasaki basically had the contract or was close to it and SEPTA revised the contract in favor of ROTEM.
However, I did see a scanned sign in sheet for a video meeting for the interested parties for the M5 procurement so maybe they aren't bent over that issue with the V's. I actually wouldn't mind if they bided on both M5 and Silverliner VI projects. I did read a few days ago that MTA banned them from some upcoming procurements in the future.