SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

I assume it's OK for passengers to use the seat in trailing units.

On the Washington Metro, the end seats on the left side of the lead car are closed off from passengers on the cars (up to the 7000 series which eliminated those seats) to allow the driver to look out the side window on that side when the train is stopped. The driver drives from the right side of the lead car. I can't comment on SEPTA, but I can see that if that need existed, it could mean not letting passengers in the first seats on other similar designs of train.

Off topic I know, but Disney has recently started to allow passengers to once again sit in the monorail nose with the operator. That is the coolest ride in the park and was available before an operator was killed when one monorail crashed into another on July 5, 2009.

I'd say that all this is simply an extension of that "kids ride in back". I know some families, who even if Illinois Law (ILCS) allows a kid 13yo+ to sit up front, the family will not.

I recently gave a ride to a 14yo, who is small for her age. "Lulu rides in back" was Mom's parting words.

I guess SEPTA and other agencies.with similar rules are just being like this child's family.

TAN: Front Seats
S.E.P.T.A.'s current Market - Frankford Subway - El cars have television screens for the operator so it isn't necessary to leave the cab to see platforms on the left side of the train. This way, the left front seat is available for passengers. There are locked door controls and window next to that seat, for use if there is no television reception.
The left front seat on S.E.P.T.A.'s current Broad St. line cars can be folded up and blocked off by swinging the cab door into the aisle. There are locked door controls and window next to that seat, for use to slow down the service at stations with left hand platforms, as the trains emergency brakes automatically apply if the operator moves to the other side of the car. There is a delay before they can be released.
Port Authority Transit Corp.'s Lindenwold line still uses its original cars from the late 1960s, but they were rebuilt with modern full width cabs to eliminate the old fashioned front seat.

I assume that no sign is needed (in theory) because the aisle is supposed to be blocked by the yellow tape.

I remember one time two off-duty employees tried sitting in that front row and the conductor actually told them they could not sit there as per company rules. She was sort of apologetic. It sounded like she was covering her.......... for fear of being caught in a rules violation if she let them sit there.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 7:21 pm It sounded like she was covering her.......... for fear of being caught in a rules violation if she let them sit there.

Or fear of being scolded by the Engineer.

With the recent fatal crash on the RiverLine, would there be more rationale against allowing seating in forward front seats on MUs?

Well let's hope not. Luckily this is not a common occurrence and hopefully rules will not be changed because of one event on a different railroad system.

Some of us "old timers" on this board may remember a NJ Transit engineer who went by the user name jtgshu on this forum. He passed away suddenly maybe ten (?) years ago. In discussions back then about front window viewing by the public, he always argued against allowing it because of dangers like the recent tree incident, although he used to talk more about railroad mishaps, especially regarding freight trains on mixed traffic lines.

If he were still with us today he would be citing the River Line incident as perfect example of why the public should not be near the front windows on passenger trains. Though I had the highest respect for jtgshu as a railroad professional, I respectfully disagreed with him on this subject, as again such incidents are few and far between.

JuniusLivonius wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:47 pm Now back to the topic...

Back to the topic? We were right on topic with the Slverliner V seats being closed in that row, but somehow, the post topic on the above few replies are from the "Re: Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance" thread. I think something got crossed somewhere.

Anyway, SEPTA has had this front row of seats closed off since Day 1 of Silverliner V operation. Their concerns are because of the front window (the so-called official reason), but the reality is that crews use that front seat to store their belongings, as well as needing that row when there are trainees or qualifiers on board.

As far as the window excuse is concerned, one row of seats is not going to save anybody if there is an intrusion of an object through that window. For all practical purposes, it's basically reserved for crew space. And like most administrative policies that do not appear in the rule book (because it is not a railroad operating rule or special instruction), this one regarding the front row is one of them and is in whatever manual that covers general Authority policy.

In any event, this will not be a problem with the Silverliner VI order, as the cabs will be full-width with a vestibule door on the side opposite the engineer's position with a solid bulkhead .

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 6:29 am On the Washington Metro, the end seats on the left side of the lead car are closed off from passengers on the cars (up to the 7000 series which eliminated those seats) to allow the driver to look out the side window on that side when the train is stopped. The driver drives from the right side of the lead car. I can't comment on SEPTA, but I can see that if that need existed, it could mean not letting passengers in the first seats on other similar designs of train.

That row is not and never was accessible on the leading end anyway, since it's in the operating cab, which is completely closed off on all equipment.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 7:14 pm ...
Some of us "old timers" on this board may remember a NJ Transit engineer who went by the user name jtgshu on this forum. He passed away suddenly maybe ten (?) years ago. In discussions back then about front window viewing by the public, he always argued against allowing it because of dangers like the recent tree incident, although he used to talk more about railroad mishaps, especially regarding freight trains on mixed traffic lines. ...

He was awesome and was one of the guys that made the NJT forum so entertaining for a few years.

Anyway, I disagreed with him as well. If the object was to reduce passenger injuries by reducing risk exposure, there are probably 20 modes of risk that are higher than the occasional buff looking through the front window.