SEPTA closes front seats on Silverliner V

Is the car still there?

ex Budd man wrote:

25Hz wrote:Parlor door, from my understanding, is the door that is opened to allow people to pass between cars, and closed on the fore and aft ends of the consist. An impact might bend the door, or the frame post, causing the door to intrude into the passenger compartment oddly, or be stuck unable to move in some position.


I dunno how that would affect the cab door though.... The overlap of the door sweeps is very small and any damage would not be in a way that would jam the cab door shut. If the front right frame post was pushed in enough, it might cause the door to jam against the floor, or ceiling, but it'd need to be a pretty major collision for that to happen.

The end door was struck by the bumper and folded in at the bottom so far that the cab door was blocked. If the cab was full width the engineman might have been able to exit via the partition door.

Now seeing the photo i understand... wow! Hearst tool spreader probably got the cab door open.

More ice this am, and maybe we'll see if they back off the speed near bumpers in ice/snow conditions in the future?

Wtf, what do you mean back off the speed, I don't know any engineer on any railroad that is going to charge upto a bumper, get a grip and think about what your saying, that is a really bold thing to say considering you don't run trains, and Microsoft train simulator doesn't count

The SLIV's and SLV's have a snow brake feature that just doesn't get the wheels and tread brakes hot enough to keep snow and ice from building up. The IV's have hit plenty of bumpers too in the snow and ice but the V's use very little tread break as the change over from dynamic brake to tread/disc brake at 5mph versus a SLIV at 15mph from dynamic to tread brake, therefore heating up the brakes and wheels much less than a IV.

Why aren't the bumpers crushable, so that when the train hits it, it doesn't do any harm to the train, but just compresses the bumper?

They have "bumpers" that are crushable, they're called automobiles

The bumper is there so that the train, under a certain speed, will not go past the bumper. The bumper has better energy management than whats past the bumper at CHW. This is what happens if your train has enough speed and climbs the bumper:
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 0#p1236895
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 0#p1236896
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 5#p1237434

Since the trains get overcrowded sometimes do they open up those 2 front seats to make a little more room?

Not in that situation. They will sometimes do it for kids on request, as has been said earlier in this topic.

jackintosh11 wrote:What car number was it, and how long until it returns to service, if it's still out of service?

First, let me mention that on the same day as the Chestnut Hill West bumper block hit, a Chestnut Hill East train also hit the bumper block there. Both running on icy rail conditions, both involving Silverliner V's. And from my contacts, both cars involved have been repaired and are back in service already.

Clearfield wrote:

bikentransit wrote:Sounds like a foolish design. On the old cars, the engineer had 3 means of escape. Now he/she has 1, and considering the close confines, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to really get pinned in there.

The design is based on the FRA requirement NOT to have vestibule doors.

And the Rotem cars for Boston, also FRA-compliant, totally debunk that requirement. The cab cars not only have vestibule doors on both sides of the cab end, but there are a trap and steps for the door on the fireman (conductor) side of the car, while the engineer's side door would be high-level accessible only.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: Same reason while NJT decabbed the Comet II cabs (which MNCR did not with their overhauled Comet IIs).

Metro-North did not de-cab their overhauled Comets because no structural changes were made, so their being grandfathered in by the FRA still applied. NJT had to de-cab their Comet II's because of the structural changes made to the frame to accomodate the long-door pockets, which they did not have before.

And SEPTA still has a stick up their you-know-what about the front seat? Put up a sign already.

I'm at a loss as to how sitting another 3 feet back is perfectly fine.

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:41 pm And SEPTA still has a stick up their you-know-what about the front seat? Put up a sign already.

I'm at a loss as to how sitting another 3 feet back is perfectly fine.

Mr. Nas, that is quite the video Mr. Junius located. First I knew that PRR Position Light signals remain active - even if they have had a little color added.

Now could you explain what this "fruck" is all about over this front seat? From what I gather some SEPTA equipment has a passenger seat with a forward view, but that someone in authority will not allow passengers to sit in it.

Enquiring mind wants to know.

Apparently, according to SEPTA, there's some magic that occurs between the front of the first seat, and the back of the first seat, that somehow makes sitting in the second seat safe.

I don't get what a useless seat is for, and neither did the (understandably irate) passenger. No sign exists.

The conductor could have pulled out the rule book. There's your rule. Why? Apparently an occupied front row is dangerous? Then why is the cab safe? Put it back a row?

I'm (not) amazed the FRA still allows blunt end train cars to lead a train. Even the much-flaunted FRA "safety" regulates were worthless in the Metro-North Valhalla wreck a few years ago.

I think I get it, Mr. Nas.

So there is a piece of SEPTA equipment where on Engineer side, there is a "cab", but on the Fireman side, there is a forward facing seat that could accommodate revenue passengers.

But SEPTA has decreed passengers may not sit there; "safety hazard".

Funny, I don't recall the Chicago, North Shore, & Milwaukee getting perturbed over passengers, especially railfans and little kids sitting there. What few times I rode the North Shore (it folded Jan '63), that seat added to the pleasure (their Motormen had their "interpretations" of 79mph MAS).

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:08 pm So there is a piece of SEPTA equipment where on Engineer side, there is a "cab", but on the Fireman side, there is a forward facing seat that could accommodate revenue passengers.

It sounds like a Silverliner V where it has a part-width cab and only a door immediately to the left of the engineer, such that the engineer is boxed in. I found a picture with a yellow rope blocking the vestibule. I tried to get all the information I could from online pictures.

LIRR/MNRR MU cabs are the same with a foldable seat on the left (and in every cab in the middle of the consist) except LIRR/MNRR cabs have a door that can block the entire front instead of just the engineer's seat. Otherwise they're nice secret seats (in the middle of the consist) that otherwise look forbidden. No idea why SEPTA is having an issue marking the forbidden seats.


Now back to the topic...

Acela150 (amtraktrains.com) says phase 2 of 3 is now complete, somewhat corroborating this Reddit post earlier yesterday:
reddit.com | safereddit.com

The front seat problem on S.E.P.T.A.'s newest Multiple Unit cars is caused by the Engineers' union. Originally, they wanted full width cabs so there would be room for the Conductor and other crew members to keep the engineer company and a place for the Engineer's luggage, rule books, timetables, special instructions, bulletin orders, etc. They were also worried that if it ever were prudent for the Engineer to vacate the cab, there might be congestion in the aisle with potential fleeing front seat passengers. S.E.P.T.A. refused, one excuse was they didn't want their Engineers to be distracted with conversations, another, that the cars weren't designed with full width cabs. Eventually, S.E.P.T.A. agreed as a concession to allow the left front seat to be kept vacant.
Some other transit agencies have done the same with the left front seat in their cab cars. Sometimes the Engineers have to be officially reminded that the seat is to be kept vacant and not to be occupied by the Engineers' friends and fellow employees.