Scrapping CSL "red rattlers" - photo

Trying to identify a photo from the late Hal Carstens... Looks like a bunch of red rattlers that have been hastily relabeled "CTA" are being cut up. Anyone have an idea of the when and the where?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 1188871075

-otto-

Here's some info on a car which appears to be from the same order/number series: http://www.davesrailpix.com/hicks/htm/hicks230.htm

Not sure on where it was scrapped, but as far as a when, I'm going to guess the mid-50s. Although the CSL cars were re-labeled for the CTA, it wasn't necessarily "hasty," as they ran them for several years after the CTA came into existance, almost to the end of streetcar service in general (last runs were operated with PCCs, of course). The fact that routes were being converted to buses is what did these cars in, not their age.

It's important to think of the big picture on the Chicago system: the surface lines were so quickly converted to bus, that the almost-new PCC's were traded to Saint Louis Car Company, and the components were installed in the body of 6000-series L cars under construction.

Tadman wrote:It's important to think of the big picture on the Chicago system: the surface lines were so quickly converted to bus, that the almost-new PCC's were traded to Saint Louis Car Company, and the components were installed in the body of 6000-series L cars under construction.

Well, sort of. The rapid transit had wood cars on the system, and with a nasty accident they were forced into agreeing to replace them with metal cars. Money was tight, and they had those new PCC cars. They first tried to simply raise the cars to accommodate high platforms, but that was a failure. So they sent the cars off and every possible part was removed and reused. And, since they now had no streetcars, the system was abandoned.

So the removal of the cars caused the abandonment, not the reverse.

They tried to raise the PCC's to work on high platforms such as those on the L? I've never heard that. I don't doubt that the PCC retirement may have been accelerated by the need for components to replace wood cars, but I've never heard/seen of modified PCC's adapted for the L, even as a test. The amount of re-engineering required would be obscene.

my brain sees a pcc on stilts and instable on curves.

my brian sees "Red Green meets Henry Cordell"...

For those still curious, Red Green is the lovable PBS character that works wonders with duct tape; Henry Cordell was a CRT/CNS&M mechanic genius. John Horacheck used to write about him in "First and Fastest" quite a lot.

Tadman wrote:They tried to raise the PCC's to work on high platforms such as those on the L? I've never heard that. I don't doubt that the PCC retirement may have been accelerated by the need for components to replace wood cars, but I've never heard/seen of modified PCC's adapted for the L, even as a test. The amount of re-engineering required would be obscene.

It sounds crazy, but they did try to do it. One PCC was taken the the old Pullman works and dissected in such a way to try and get it up to "L" car standards. They couldn't make it work and incidentally, St. Louis Car (not Pullman) later got the contract for what became the 6000 and 1-50 series "L" cars. There are photos and pictures in the old CERA book "Chicago's Rapid Transit Volume II."

Here is the photo in question for those who might be able to help with a date or location... Thanks again!