San Francisco cable cars

I had my first cable car experience last weekend - what a blast! The Powell Street lines were very crowded most of the day with lines of tourists waiting to ride, but the California Street line rarely had a wait. Most motorists on the streets behaved themselves, but one idiot cut off our car as it was coming to a stop, angering the gripman greatly. No one on the outside of the car was in serious danger, fortunately, but Muni should consider discretely mounting cameras on the cars to capture those incidents on film and ticket offending drivers.

In regards to fare collection, the conductor on all trips asked to see our passes and collected fares from all aboard. They were also helpful to the many tourists and frequently promoted the sale of Muni's $9 one-day pass to those seeking to buy tickets. The gripman on the last car we rode also took our pictures when we reached the end of the line.

Jim

Did you buy a "Passport" ? They were made for buffs, as you can ride the entire system for as long as the passport is good, including cable cars. My favorite line is Powell-Mason, as to me it's the most realistic portrayal of what the line was in Barbary Coast days. It's the only one of the three that is original in it's entirety. The California line is original Cal Cable, however the current route is a truncated one. The cable cars are worth the airfare/hotel, completely on their own. Glad that you had a great time !

Yes, we had the passes - that's the way to go. We rode the Powell-Mason and the California line. I actually liked the Cal line better - there was no line to get on and the cars carried mostly passengers who were using it as public transportation instead of the hordes of tourists you find on the Powell Street lines. We rode the Mason car at 11:30 at night which was pretty cool and much less crowded than earlier in the day. Definitely worth the trip.

Jim

3rdrail wrote:SF Cable cars today are virtually the same now as they were in the 1800's. They are a National Historical Site, and as such, are tightly controlled as regards to modifications, etc. The grips are not electrically controlled, but instead controlled by good old-fashioned elbow grease and are the same ones which have their origins in designs made by men like Andrew Hallidie and Henry Casebolt way back when. A few variations in style of grip manifested itself in the early years, but the one found under today's cars was found to be the best for it's application. It also was developed in the 1800's. They have no motors, but instead - through the grip - clamp onto a moving cable underneath the street which pulls them along. The powerhouse which drives the "rope" under the street is electrically controlled, and is located at Hyde/Washington Sts. It is a great thing to see and the cars are wonderful machines to experience.

isn't that great. the cable cars are one of the most unique reasons I love San Francisco. I do hope that it never changes (you kow it seems the old is always replaced with the new, and in this case, it would be a shame).

Lwilliams wrote:isn't that great. the cable cars are one of the most unique reasons I love San Francisco. I do hope that it never changes (you kow it seems the old is always replaced with the new, and in this case, it would be a shame).

They are great. In spite of the hammering that they get, particularly in tourist season, they aren't going anywhere soon. Muni is meticulous about upkeep on the cars and preventative maintenance on the fleet is done to a level far beyond any other public transportation system. They also represent the core of San Francisco, which would not be the same without them.

Yes I rememeber when they did the rehab of the system and we didn't have the cars running for a long time (think it was at least a year if not longer). Isn't this when the city added the historic street cars on Market St?

RailBus63 wrote:I but one idiot cut off our car as it was coming to a stop, angering ... but Muni should consider discretely mounting cameras on the cars to capture those incidents on film and ticket offending drivers.

The gripman on the last car we rode also took our pictures when we reached the end of the line.

On a typical cable car run, how many tourist-riders had cameras out to snap pictures? A driver who does something wrong and almost immediately sees strobes or flashes such as from a camera is likely to be trembling in his boots for hours.

RailBus63 wrote:How are fares collected on the cars if you literally have people hanging off the side?

Passengers are supposed to pay fares as opposed to conductors' collecting fares. Whenever possible, even waiting at red lights, the conductor should make announcements and present himself so as to make it as easy as possible for the passengers to pay.

Right, at one time they would collect the fares, with the shout, " The Fare is Fair!!" I was fascinated by their braking system. The car would press two by fours against the tracks. White plumes of smoke followed the braking cable car. Those two by fours didn't last long.

The track brakes are one of three systems on the car. There are also more conventional brakes on the wheels, hand operated with wooden brake blocks, IIRC and a steel wedge which can be driven into the cable slot as a last resort. A runaway can be prevented by simply gripping the cable, which moves at a steady 7.5 MPH. The track brakes are operated by the conductor from a staff on the rear platform, the remainder are in the hands or feet of the gripman.

Gerry6309 wrote:The track brakes are one of three systems on the car. There are also more conventional brakes on the wheels, hand operated with wooden brake blocks, IIRC and a steel wedge which can be driven into the cable slot as a last resort. A runaway can be prevented by simply gripping the cable, which moves at a steady 7.5 MPH. The track brakes are operated by the conductor from a staff on the rear platform, the remainder are in the hands or feet of the gripman.

It's the other way around, Gerry. The track brakes, which are deployed by the Gripman with a lever next to his lever for the grip, deploy pine blocks by force directly down on the rail. Wheel brakes use iron shoes which press on the tread of the wheel and are deployed by the Gripman pressing down on a pedal, much like a conventional automobile, for the front truck (Powell Cars). The rear truck wheel brakes are deployed by the Conductor on the rear of a Powell car by a ratchet. As you mentioned, the emergency brake which utilizes a wedge driven into the slot, is deployed by the Gripman with a red handled lever. If it's deployed, the car comes to an abrupt stop (hopefull) and a Muni welding crew has to come out and free the wedge out of the slot with a welding torch. The cable runs at 9.5 MPH. As a practical matter, many Gripmen will tell you that sometimes, it comes down to really only having two brakes to work with for anything under 9.5 MPH - the track brakes and the emergency brake. The reason is that sometimes a Gripman will deploy too much oomph to his lever and apply so much downward force that he actually lifts the car's wheels off it's tracks by jacking action, with the car then sliding on the blocks of pine. That was probably the situation with pennsy's plumes of white smoke. The cable can be used for semi-braking, but if the grip gets caught in a loose strand on the "rope" (cable), it can cause a car to continually travel along at 9.5 MPH theoretically until nothing was left but a 9.5 MPH grip ! Operating a cable car is an art, not a science, and there are many processes and "tricks of the trade" which are handed down from one Gripman to another as to how to deal with situations like these on the quirky little cars. No two cars handle the same, and after a while, a good Gripman will know the characteristics of each car and have his favorite.

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?pho ... ullman0517

Thanks for the corrections, Paul. It's been about 15 years since I've been on a cable car!

modorney wrote:... At intersections, where cables cross, one wire is on top, and the other is below. The "below" cable car releases its grip and rolls through the intersection. They are sloped, and gravity works every time. ...

While gravity is a key ingredient in many situations, inertia is the primary ingredient when cables cross. I find it fascinating to watch the "below" cable car release the cable at just the right instant and then coast through the intersection to the pickup on the far side. These intersections are pretty flat so gravity is a minor point here.

As an outsider from Boston, I find the logistics fascinating. The switching, coasting, changing ends, for a California car to get to-and-from the car barn is genius engineering. To me, the cable cars are more fascinating to watch than to ride.

On a recent trip to SF, I watched the following at the turnaround at Bay and Taylor: For whatever reason, two cars switched positions for the return trip to Market Street. In other words, the 2nd car in was to be the first car out. There's a crossover about 200 feet from the turntable. When I saw the 2nd car take the crossover (under gravity), I wondered how this was going to be accomplished as the cars are single-ended. The car coasted down the slight incline, through the pick-up point, then coasted up a smaller incline to the turntable. On the turntable, the car was rotated 180 degrees (manually) and then coasted back down the small incline back to the pick-up point. A fascinating piece of engineering and execution.

Here are four questions I hope locals (or anyone) can answer:

(A) The wait at Hyde/Beach sometimes exceeded an hour during my recent visit. Even with three or four cars waiting in line, they only leave once every 12 minutes or so. In other words, there appears to be adequate rolling stock (and idle employees) for shorter headways. (Tourists: It's only a six minute walk to the Bay/Taylor cable car with a far shorter wait)

(B) Are the cable cars profitable? Five bucks for two-mile ride on public transportation is probably one of the highest in the nation. (I'm not bitching about the cost, I'm just asking if the cars pay for themselves)

(C) Below is a photograph of a cable car diverging switch (On Jackson between Powell and Mason). I understand the slots for the track and the cable. What are those two "extra" slots that are about three feet long and jut out where the cable slot crosses a running rail?

(D) Here's a photograph taken at Mason and Jackson looking east towards Powell. Note that the left-most track (the Mason track) has a slight "jog" in it before turning down Mason Street. If you look closely, you will notice a similar jog in the same track at Powell Street (Look under the standees on the oncoming car). I think I have figured out their purpose, but I want to hear from other if they know why the tracks jog.

I hope somebody can answer question (C)--I have asked gripmen and conductors numerous times over the years and have never gotten a straight answer.

It's now been a week since Question (A) was posted, so here's my two cents: there was a comment in some publication (maybe at the Cable Car Museum?) that a limiting factor in cable-car headways is the number of cars that can be gripping a cable at the same time. In theory, some cars are going uphill and some down, but it's not symmetrical as on a funicular, and it's at least theoretically possible that all cars gripping a particular cable could be going uphill at the same time. The Powell St. lines have the classic problem of a trunk with two branches--if the trunk is at capacity neither branch can exceed 1/2 of its capacity except at the expense of the other branch. Consequently, the number of departures from Hyde & Beach and Bay & Taylor, respectively, in a given period cannot exceed 1/2 the departures from Powell & Market in the same period because the total cannot exceed the number of cars that can be gripping the Powell St. cable at any one time. At least that's my understanding--maybe someone can expand on this.

An earlier poster raised a good point about insurance regulations and passenger conduct re: turning the cars. In this modern era where firefighters are no longer allowed to ride the back or sides of fire trucks, we still allow passengers to ride an unenclosed side step on cable cars, where they could fall off or be hit by passing traffic???? This while firefighters are required to ride inside an enclosed crew cab for their own safety. Absolutely unbelievable in this day and age...........