• Reviving passenger service between West Trenton & Bound Brook

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, nick11a, Kaback9

  by JohnFromJersey
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:04 am Who would benefit from such a rerouting? Other than some people in Montgomery and Bucks County, I don't think the alternative routing would help anyone. If you want to make the route a lot more high speed, you probably need to squeeze it into the I-95 right of way as much as possible, but even then you have issues. Not saying there isn't some benefit of maybe running some trains from 30th Street to NYP via the West Trenton Line, but anything else seems like a waste of resources for little gain.
Well, that's the point - Amtrak (and maybe NJT?) wants to make the NEC even more high(er) speed than it is now; the most basic way to do that would be to get as much slower traffic off of the NEC as possible. A dedicated high-speed rail down I-95 would be pretty great, but that would be far more challenging than rerouting trains that don't stop often, if at all, between Newark-Philly on the West Trenton Line, a line that already exists. You wouldn't have to worry about serving stops between West Trenton-Philly as SEPTA has those locked down.
  by lensovet
 
The speed problems on the NEC are less about congestion and more about some of the insane curves.

(and the congestion issues are around bottlenecks that this wouldn't solve, like Portal and the tunnels)
  by JohnFromJersey
 
On a separate note, the West Trenton Line's terminus is not too far from Trenton-Mercer Airport. Why don't they try to make the terminus at the airport? I could imagine both it and the airport would see more use.
lensovet wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 am The speed problems on the NEC are less about congestion and more about some of the insane curves.

(and the congestion issues are around bottlenecks that this wouldn't solve, like Portal and the tunnels)
Say they ran high-speed rail on Philly-West Trenton-Bound Brook; would that even be possible? Would it be faster and less curvy than the NEC?
  by nomis
 
Although the track configuration for the Septa + CSX PTC segregation in the past couple of years works in favor of a track expansion, the capital expenses would be quite large to bypass the neighborhood and arrive at the passenger terminal on the West side of the airport.

In addition to the taxi's that frequent the station, a shuttle bus would be quite easy to setup if it met the septa departures & fit Frontier's schedule. With a proposed terminal expansion, and a temporary shrinkage of cheap $8/day parking, it would be the optimal time to start such a service.
  by scratchyX1
 
nomis wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:22 pm Although the track configuration for the Septa + CSX PTC segregation in the past couple of years works in favor of a track expansion, the capital expenses would be quite large to bypass the neighborhood and arrive at the passenger terminal on the West side of the airport.

In addition to the taxi's that frequent the station, a shuttle bus would be quite easy to setup if it met the septa departures & fit Frontier's schedule. With a proposed terminal expansion, and a temporary shrinkage of cheap $8/day parking, it would be the optimal time to start such a service.
The airports parking lots look to be about as far away as some parking at the MARC halethorpe station. I can't tell if there is anything walkable, around the current station, I'm not seeing connecting bus service.
It would require a connecting track from the CP trent yard, but nothing too pricey.
  by lensovet
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:17 pm Say they ran high-speed rail on Philly-West Trenton-Bound Brook; would that even be possible? Would it be faster and less curvy than the NEC?
Sure, but then what? You still have to get to the NEC to continue the rest of the journey. Who's commuting to Bound Brook? And stopping at West Trenton won't get you anyone from Princeton or Hamilton.
  by west point
 
Any service on the West Trenton line is IMO about 25 years. There are several possible mitigations for the present NEC.
1. NJT may order somewhat higher speed passenger cars for express runs.
2. NJT will have finished the overpass reversal loop.
3. Four Full main tracks Newark to NY City bores should be finished.
4. All Gateway projects should be finished including present North River bores refurbished.
5. Penn South should be under construction.
5a. Higher speed connections established NEC <> Reading line.

Unknowns
6. How many passengers will there be.
7. Will some radicals try to sink NJT and Amtrak?
8. Will NJ enact legislation to preserve any ROW and ancillary structure locations banning any construction in those areas. Thinking about overpasses and under passes. possible needed CAT structures.
9. Population growth along the line.
10. If both AX-2 and regionals go to 1/2 hour headways some regionals might take the route.
  by cle
 
It could surely be another branch of the Raritan. Not necessarily Amtrak style stopping, but NJT 'semi-fast' pattern and another route (and price competition) to Philly, plus some new markets.

Even if starting to Newark (per raritan, before hunter and tunnels) - it might be a useful option to begin and you get PATH, and other connections there.

NJT should extend some Trenton fasts to Philly too, if allowed - and compete there too. Princeton to Philly should and could be hourly. And faster (cheaper Trenton too) - maybe add Metropark and remove it from some Amtrak calls.
  by Roadgeek Adam
 
You're hitting the issue of capacity. RVL is two tracks. NJT already lacks Hoboken and NYP space. While I've wanted to have NJT purchase some of Croxton for an extra yard, it won't ever happen. Capacity is the big thing needed.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
cle wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:02 am NJT should extend some Trenton fasts to Philly too, if allowed - and compete there too.
They were handed the Clocker slots in October 2005 (given most Clocker ridership had been NJ commuters),
replacing them with Trenton expresses.

NYP-PHL is 91 miles, and I could see some of the Trenton expresses run there, but poaching on SEPTA turf.
  by Steampowered
 
Whenever the NEC is shut down the West Trenton bypass would have saved so many people. If I had the option to be dropped off at Newark vs just getting stuck. I would choose newark. Plus pushing less service through trenton would better. Most people in mercer/ somerset would choose to take thew new line. Because Princeton junction is madness. The new west trenton line should be all electric and but an amtrack bypass for high speed.
  by Roadgeek Adam
 
Steampowered wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:50 pm Whenever the NEC is shut down the West Trenton bypass would have saved so many people. If I had the option to be dropped off at Newark vs just getting stuck. I would choose newark. Plus pushing less service through trenton would better. Most people in mercer/ somerset would choose to take thew new line. Because Princeton junction is madness. The new west trenton line should be all electric and but an amtrack bypass for high speed.
The chances Amtrak would use it as a bypass are slim. There is only one likely scenario where this would occur and it's the bridge over the Delaware, built in 1903, completely collapsing or partially collapsing.

I agree though that a trade off of terminating at Newark makes a tad more sense, but I still don't know where you find the slots for it.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
I'm not sure how many trains run between Newark-Trenton-Philadelphia, but I'd imagine if the West Trenton & Bound Brooke connection was a thing, you could have half those trains run on each line, creating more capacity for the NEC.
  by ExCon90
 
I don't see anything on WT-BB to balance Trenton-Hamilton-Princeton Jct. for intermediate-points travel, and while many potential riders could select a station on WT-BB, they will need to come back to the same station they parked at and thus will have only 1/2 the frequency -- or less -- available for the return trip.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Steampowered wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:50 pm Whenever the NEC is shut down the West Trenton bypass would have saved so many people.
When 188 crashed and shut the NEC, NJT ran connecting shuttles between Trenton and West Trenton.
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