Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: JJMDiMunno

  by LCJ
From what I've heard, former NYC people in key positions thought the red "P" was far too indicative of a PRR takeover. It was an early version that was dumped very quickly. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking you could count the actual number on one hand.

  by RSD15
there was about 132 units with the red P and 17 GP-40s 3170-3186 with the orange C

  by fglk
I've seen pics of GP30's with both Red P's and Red C's as well

  by RSD15
just to clarify, GP-40s 3170-3186 were delivered from emd with white P and orange C in late 1968,i think all were repainted by 1973. sorry i have no photo sharing ability charles

  by LCJ
RSD15 wrote:just to clarify, GP-40s 3170-3186 were delivered from emd with white P and orange C in late 1968,i think all were repainted by 1973.
Just a note here that this repainting consisted -- I believe -- of removing a vinyl sticker and replacing it. PC lettering was all vinyl stickers as far as I know, therefore very easy/inexpensive to apply, remove, and replace.

  by fglk
Penn Central used Vinyl stickers on both Locomotives and Cars. I rember reading something about it on a PC Site on line.

  by Notch 8
This is copied from a PC devoted website (www.smellycat.com) Hope it helps.

The PC emblem, commonly known as the "mating worms", was originally applied to locomotives in white. All freight cars, except open hoppers, received a black PC emblem over their gray (covered hoppers) or green (everything else) paint. By April 1968, though, the black logo was replaced by the all-white log on all freight cars, except for on gray covered hoppers.

In May 1968, PC experimented with the "red P" logo, consisting of a red "P" and white "C". This version of the emblem was applied to approximately 136 locomotives and some freight cars during the April-June 1968 period. This was discontinued, probably due to the "red P" accentuating the internal strife between the PRR and NYC sides of the company. PC then returned to the all-white logo.

During October 1968, a group of 17 new EMD GP40 locomotives were received with the "Orange C" emblem, featuring a white "P" and an orange "C". This emblem was an experiment which was not repeated, and the company kept the all-white PC emblem until its demise. (Interestingly, though, PC 5585, a former New Haven RS3, was painted with an "orange C" emblem in April 1969, long after the experiment ended.)

According to Chuck French, one possible explanation for the "Orange C" emblem was to make the New Haven feel welcome as a part of Penn Central. The "Orange C" locomotives were delivered in October 1968, a few months before the New Haven was taken over. At the same time, PC was basically forced into merging the New Haven by the Interstate Commerce Commission, so PC management may not have been inclined to change the company emblem on locomotives just for the New Haven people. However, it is the best (and really, the only) explanation that I have heard for the "Orange C" emblem to date.

Sources: Penn Central Power by Robert Yanosey, Penn Central Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by James Kinkaid, and Chuck French.

  by espeefoamer
I remember seeing Penn Central boxcars with a black P and white C.how many cars got this scheme?

  by Idiot Railfan
On a somewhat related note, when I was a kid, many HO trainsets came with Penn Central engines, and they almost always were NYC green. Were any real engines ever painted that color?

  by LCJ
New York Central, pre-merger, of course, painted at least one E8A a Jade Green color, I believe. Many PC units were green, but such a dark shade it was effectively black.

  by Roscoe P. Coaltrain
RSD15, you got individual unit numbers of those 132 locos? Or know of an information source (magazines, etc) with this info?