Railfans distracting engineers

i didnt no where to put this so mods move it if needed

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/ ... 4-19-35-19

Since this happend on MTRA it is safe to say it belongs on METRA forum

This material has a place here, Mr. Railnut, as it relates to any railroad operation.

Yes, I have had my share of cab rides in this life; however most were in the line of duty during my eleven years in the industry. However, the ones I have had in the capacity of a railfan are not discussed (I have only operated a locomotive, light, within a shop area not touching a switch point).

Regarding the posting of any such on the likes of You Tube or My Space (or even reporting it here), time for the Darwin Awards. But then, here in my "upscale' Suburban community, i can imagine a Mother or two around here saying "hey, he's only a kid'.

But in the meantime, a Locomotive Engineer has been held from service and quite likely will be assessed discipline (Iwould hope short of dismissal). The kid could even be called to testify at the hearing (that should be a terrifying experience as an 18 year old, bad enough for me when i was required to do so after a little 'weedwhacking'), but back "when i did this stuff for a living', institutions such as You Tube, My Space, and even Railroad.Net simply 'weren't'.

I have had a fair share of cab rides myself and have not been a distraction. In additiion, I have assisted crews with car numbers when asked to do so, doing this in a safe manner where car numbers can be recorded while on public property and gave the list to the conductor to check against the paper work given him when leaving Buffalo. As often as not, my record keeping was quite accurate. This was in the days when there were still quite afew ex ERie people working Conrail's Southern Tier. Unlike these cretons who broadcast their adventures on MySpace and the like, I have been good about keeping my mouth shut.Those were the good days before that thug from Texas came along and ruled this country by fear. There are still enough guys who know me by the help and other goodies I have given them in the past. I have developed quite afew friendships with area railroaders this way and have been far from a distraction. Done right, railfans can provide the extra sets of eyes and ears needed to secure this nation's rail system, and an occasional cab ride is a good way to watch out for something out of the ordinary that the engineer may not be able to catch in time. The kid in that METRA episode clearly crossed the line and it makes the rest of us look bad.

I could not get the link to work but presume it had to do with railfans riding in loco cabs.

Those were the good days before that thug from Texas came along and ruled this country by fear.

That's totally irrelevant to the discussion and has nothing to do with cab rides. For as long back as one can look, it has been against company regulations to give kids rides. And as far back as you can look, it has happened anyway. Always has, always will.

Caseyjim wrote:Those were the good days before that thug from Texas came along and ruled this country by fear.

Caseyjim wrote:If these remote control switchers ."yada yada yada".. In this age of terrorism and that sort of thing, now is NOT the time to allow robots to get into the act of railroading..

HEY, i'm gonna ask that you pick a leg and stand on it before you go adding any more of your opinions in the Operations Forum.

It just keeps getting better and better.

Now we have "expert railfans" who can assist the TE&Y crews in car counts, determine who can and cannot operate an RCL and feel that they are experts in the arena of the RR by having taken a fair share of cab rides. I guess the guys who are employed by the RR's have no clue as to what the scope of our jobs are.

Better have a railfan on the head end of every trip.

I never pretended to be an expert on railroad operations or anything like that. It's s just that I was doing that particular conductor a favor while he was trying to do several other things at the same time relavant to the switching operation at hand. The car list I made up for him that day made things a whole lot easier as far as the specific box car he was looking for. I am the kind of person where if those guys ask a favor of me, they will get it. I even did some coffee runs for a section gang on occasions, too.

Some of the people that drive us around try to help out and do the same things you do there bud, most railroaders are too kind to tell them where they can stick there efforts to be part of the crew for a few minutes. Might want to think twice next time you think about approaching some railroaders. Most of the time when railroaders meet with the public while we are working it aint too great. If ya dont know what im talking about you might want to read threw this tread : http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 36&t=52326

I suppose that my two cents is that anytime there's an extra person in the cab, there's a distraction. I just do my best to just tune out anyone extra in the cab. We have road foremans and trainmasters who ride some and even they can be a distraction, not to mention trainees. I have had some of the news media ride and you really need to stay focused on what you're doing. The cab is our work place.

Sometimes actually two people are required in the cab.

NORAC Operating Rules 9th Edition wrote: 123. Failure of Dead Man or Alerter Feature En Route
If the “Dead Man” or “Alerter” feature fails en route, an
employee must immediately take position in the operating
control compartment with the Engineer. This employee
must be instructed on how to stop the train should the
Engineer become incapacitated.
NOTE: On passenger trains in non-cab signal territory,
the employee positioned with the Engineer must also be
familiar with signal aspects.

slchub wrote:It just keeps getting better and better.

Now we have "expert railfans" who can assist the TE&Y crews in car counts, determine who can and cannot operate an RCL and feel that they are experts in the arena of the RR by having taken a fair share of cab rides. I guess the guys who are employed by the RR's have no clue as to what the scope of our jobs are.

Better have a railfan on the head end of every trip.

HeeHee! Nothing finer than having foamers telling employee how to do our jobs, eh? Actually, while such people mean well, it is actually best to stay OUT of company operations. Fans, while well-intentioned, may be violating Union Contract Rules by inserting themselves into things they neither understand nor need to be in! I would think most buffs would not have any understanding of time tickets and how they may cause a monetary claim against the company.

I once learned of a situation where a fan was "volunteering" to clean up the passenger station and provide friendly information to passengers---supposedly for FREE. Well, you can't STOP someone from hanging around some outlying flag stop and talking to the passengers, etc. BUT! Somehow this guy got hold of a key to the AGENCY office and was going INSIDE and playing "agent", using the radio and the train order wire. This violated the Clerk's Agreement as well as FRA RULES as this kid was NOT rules qualified. I then sneaked over to the station and hid out to observe. This "Foamer Extraordinaire" was LOADING BAGGAGE, flagging the train to stop for passengers, going inside the station where there was not supposed to BE anyone at all! IOW, this job had been CUT OFF, but this nut was out there doing it for FREE with no authorization. As soon as I got some flash photos of him performing railroad work, I confronted him and demanded that he stop. He said he had "permission" (HORSE HOCKEY) from "somebody", so I told him, "OK, I am filing a time claim for ALL the division clerks against AMTRAK for letting unauthorized civilians perform railroad work, for the period of 3 MONTHS prior and current AND a report to the Federal Railway Administration and a CHARGE against Mr. Foamer for willfully violating US Law and FRA Rules by endangering railroad operations, interfering with railroad communications, and a charge to and with the railroad detectives against the individual for BREAKING and ENTERING the agency office. I don't know HOW he managed to get into the Extra Board Key Box located on the side of the building, but he had managed to dupulicate a key for his own ring. Sonny, I told him, if you want to make this HARD for you, I can sure see if I can get you some jail time!

Once he saw I WAS serious, he began to get a bit nervous! We won our claim, the boy was stopped from 'playing agent' (tho he continued to hang around the outlying station), but he no longer gained access to the station.

Minor assistance that has nothing to do with the operations of the railroad are fine (Coffee runs, cigarette lighters, etc), but you really need not try to "play railroad" because there SOME issues fans don't understand. Let the employees do their jobs, keep the fantasy what it is: a fantasy!

Gadfly

I've only had 2 short cab rides in my younger child hood days but thats it. I have been offered cab rides before but most often turn them down. Althow I have been both asked by conductors and MOW guys if they could hitch a ride to the head end of there train or to go get there own personel car/truck on dark stormy nights and on bitter cold winter days.

Ain't nuttin' wrong with that! I am sure such assistance that doesn't interfere with craft work rules is appreciated.


Gadfly

The link to the original article is no longer valid, however this is a major issue, as we know, that Metrolink crash in California last September was caused by an engineer missing a signal because he was text messaging a young railfan about picking him up for a cab ride.

It goes far beyond incompetent engineers though, how many times have we heard of "foamers" getting far too close? Even the most competent and respectful railfan can distract an engineer simply by using a camera flash for a night shot. Even running towards the track to get a shot could be a distraction, even if you're going to stop 10 feet short of the tracks, the engineer will see someone running towards the track ahead of them and have no idea if that person is planning on running across the track to beat the train, or even planning on stepping in front of it to commit suicide.