Question on time off

COEN77 wrote: just like trying to get off personal business the crew callers in JAX go crazy when someone tries to use it. I had some good arguements with them on marking off PB. CSX's arguement is that's why we have personal leave or daily vacation for doctor appointments ect....

Personal leave days and vacation are not for sick leave or doctors appointments! If I remember correctly, they tried that on the UP about 8-9 yrs ago and the engineers went on strike, until they were ordered to go back to work.... However, the company backed off!

BNSF still allows marking off personal, as long as you put a request in the computer at least 24 hrs in advance. Computer permits certain number of T&E employees off per each day, so getting time off is not a problem as long as you plan ahead... you don't even have to talk to anyone. The computer marks you off, and marks you up after time off.

jz441 wrote:
Personal leave days and vacation are not for sick leave or doctors appointments! If I remember correctly, they tried that on the UP about 8-9 yrs ago and the engineers went on strike, until they were ordered to go back to work.... However, the company backed off!

BNSF still allows marking off personal, as long as you put a request in the computer at least 24 hrs in advance. Computer permits certain number of T&E employees off per each day, so getting time off is not a problem as long as you plan ahead... you don't even have to talk to anyone. The computer marks you off, and marks you up after time off.

CSX has become a difficult railroad. In 2007 instead of staying with the national contract negotiations the BLET opted for a NS type on-property contract. Seems no one read the entire proposal which drastically affected time off, working agreements ect.....they only looked at yearly productivity bonuses. When CSX came out with a new attendance policy last year which is called a revolving 4 weeks it's restrictions were one day off within that 4 week period for personal businness, sick, doctor appointments ect...once that day is taken the 4 week cycle begins again. I was at a retirement party recently spoke with a co-worker who asked the RFE about what to do if one has a doctor appointment, sick ect....the response was that's why a person has DV & PL days. I agree the BLET & UTU on CSX should strike over this issue.

COEN77 wrote:

jz441 wrote:
Personal leave days and vacation are not for sick leave or doctors appointments! If I remember correctly, they tried that on the UP about 8-9 yrs ago and the engineers went on strike, until they were ordered to go back to work.... However, the company backed off!

BNSF still allows marking off personal, as long as you put a request in the computer at least 24 hrs in advance. Computer permits certain number of T&E employees off per each day, so getting time off is not a problem as long as you plan ahead... you don't even have to talk to anyone. The computer marks you off, and marks you up after time off.

CSX has become a difficult railroad. In 2007 instead of staying with the national contract negotiations the BLET opted for a NS type on-property contract. Seems no one read the entire proposal which drastically affected time off, working agreements ect.....they only looked at yearly productivity bonuses. When CSX came out with a new attendance policy last year which is called a revolving 4 weeks it's restrictions were one day off within that 4 week period for personal businness, sick, doctor appointments ect...once that day is taken the 4 week cycle begins again. I was at a retirement party recently spoke with a co-worker who asked the RFE about what to do if one has a doctor appointment, sick ect....the response was that's why a person has DV & PL days. I agree the BLET & UTU on CSX should strike over this issue.

WOW!~ This one sounds even WORSE than NS! Even the supervisors at my terminal, tho rough at times, recognized that employees had things they MUST do, and as long as one didn't get TOO regular about marking off, they would let you. If the 'board was short, they might get bit testy about it, or even DARE you to do it. If the 'board wasn't exhausted, they usually didn't care.

Now, this situation with the new employee is a bit different since he isn't going to HAVE any sick days, PL, or vac built. Surely, it might work out fine IF the bosses are reasonable, and you don't get one of the SOB types. It is not going to create a favorable impression for a brand new employee to start asking for time off right off the bat; that could go either way and cause the railroad to think that you are going to be one of "those"! It is, IMHO, risky to start asking to mark off during one's probation period because, I'm telling you from experience, as would COEN77, that the railroad can decide they don't LIKE you for ANY reason, and even if you join the union the very first day, it will NOT stop you from being terminated simply because the boss "doesn't like your looks" or even something you said no matter how innocent! I SAW it happen! I don't know about CSX, but in probation you have NO protection against termination!
Again, it might be perfectly fine to ASK about it. The gentleman is a NEW employee who is, naturally, going to have questions that the supervisors are bound to answer and should be reasonable about ones questions. There's no harm in asking. If he OK's it, FINE. GREAT! IST Wunderbar, mein Herr! OTH, the railroads do NOT give a tinkers dam (and it's not "damn", but "dam" in this instance) and they don't CARE if you miss your bride at the altar! They'd just as soon FIRE you as to LOOK at you! I think they ENJOY it! They'll just say, "NEXT"!

Well, they can't "fire" ME! They did it SEVERAL times way back when! LOL!

GF

"Here is how things work on BNSF... You will not be allowed additional time off while in training, unless there is some unforeseen emergency. Once marked up, you will be subject to attendance policy. If you work the extra board without assigned days off, you can mark off 5 week days and 2 weekend days per month. In other words, you will have no problem getting 2 days off."

HOLY COW !!!! That sounds incredible. I can't believe BNSF has that policy. That has got to be the envy of every NS and CSX employee from what I've read. 5 week days and 2 weekend days per month !!! Boy I was hoping maybe NS would have something like 3 maybe 4 days total one could mark off. That's incredible from everything I've read. I guess that's why it's so hard to find anyone posting anything negative about working for BNSF. I still can't believe that monthly policy.

We NS folks can't speak for BNSF. We can only tell you what happened to US during our own careers. The railroad didn't become absolutely over-the-top ANAL until AFTER the merger. I never experienced a run-off until AFTER the NW types from "up naw'th" came down here. Say what you will, tho Southern WOULD take you out of service for mistakes, derailments, safety violations, USUALLY mundane things like making a shipping error (clerks) would get you mildly scolded, but not run off unless you made it a regular habit of making the same mistakes. They WOULD take you out of service, but for a few exceptions, they didn't get in your face and burst your eardrums yelling. If you caused a car to be mis-routed, THAT could get you ground time because it COST the company $$ to get the car back from off-line. We could also mark off so long as the 'board wasn't exhausted and there was someone to protect assignments. We got no protest over time off to go to church on Sunday---so long as this was once or twice a month and not every week. We'd even get away with (at first until they wised up to it) "playing the board" by marking off to keep from going on an assignment or location we didn't want, THEN marking BACK up AFTER someone else had been tapped to protect the assignment. We'd do it sometimes when we'd see that there was a Freight House vacation coming up (8A- 5P w/ weekend rest days), and we'd try to mark back up just in time for one of those jobs to come to the top. Didn't always work, but.............
It didn't take long for the Terminal Agent to catch onto that and put a stop to it! The NW "yankees" were REALLY, REALLY alpha hotels, coming down here from Bellevue, Oh. and truly blindsiding some of us with run-offs over the pettiest things we weren't used to being nailed for! These #####'s LOOKED for something to get you with, and used the work rules as a club, or whip. We weren't used to being screamed at to the extent these butt####s did it, and there were a couple of times where one of them almost got a surprise that would have severely injured HIM and sent me packing. I was biting my lip in two to keep from hitting 'em, it is thru extreme restraint I didn't!!!!!

I'm glad there IS a railroad that uses a bit of common sense(?) as should the others! But we are NOT exxagerating when we talk about the atmosphere on OUR railroads. We're just telling it the way it truly is!

GF

So is it safe to say than that working for BNSF is ALOT better than working for NS or CSX? Where does CN and CP fall in line or even UP? How would you rate them? While I have heard NS is tough, one former conductor, now an engineer, has worked for 6 different railroads and he stated while NS was tough, he probably enjoyed his time with them the best, and that the track and loco's were maintained better than any of the other places he worked. Obviously he hasn't, nor could he, have traveled across a huge portion of rail from all these different companies nor been in every loco, but this was his opinion. So

drewg350 wrote:That's incredible from everything I've read. I guess that's why it's so hard to find anyone posting anything negative about working for BNSF. I still can't believe that monthly policy.

That's true, there is a reason why you don't find people here complaining about BNSF... Over all, we have pretty good managers who don't go out of their way to get people fired or disciplined.

drewg350 wrote:So is it safe to say than that working for BNSF is ALOT better than working for NS or CSX? Where does CN and CP fall in line or even UP? How would you rate them? While I have heard NS is tough, one former conductor, now an engineer, has worked for 6 different railroads and he stated while NS was tough, he probably enjoyed his time with them the best, and that the track and loco's were maintained better than any of the other places he worked. Obviously he hasn't, nor could he, have traveled across a huge portion of rail from all these different companies nor been in every loco, but this was his opinion. So

Well, based on what I have read from time off and pay during training/first 5years BNSF blows NS out of the water.

It is what it is. In my opinion NS is still a railroad where CSX acts more like a corporation. I've traveled over NS territory while having CSX trains diverted during floods, hurricanes, derailments ect...NS tracks are far superior to CSX. Not much difference between NS & CSX management these days. CSX in 2005 hired several people from the NS upper management most notibly Tony Ingram. Ingram was a nazi ruling transportation on CSX with an iron fist. After Ingrams departure from NS life got easier on their employees. Ingram has retired from CSX his protege David Brown (originally from NS) is his replacement. Life on CSX remains the same.

COEN77 wrote:It is what it is. In my opinion NS is still a railroad where CSX acts more like a corporation. I've traveled over NS territory while having CSX trains diverted during floods, hurricanes, derailments ect...NS tracks are far superior to CSX. Not much difference between NS & CSX management these days. CSX in 2005 hired several people from the NS upper management most notibly Tony Ingram. Ingram was a nazi ruling transportation on CSX with an iron fist. After Ingrams departure from NS life got easier on their employees. Ingram has retired from CSX his protege David Brown (originally from NS) is his replacement. Life on CSX remains the same.

I remember the VERY particular track maintenance from Southern Railway. They were/are very "persnickety" about it. Their philosophy is that is it better to take the expense hits NOW by keeping the RoW tip top because it will pay dividends in the long run. Fewer derailments, less costly repairs by staying on top of it. Southern was one of the first to mechanize track maintenance by inventing/improving machinery to eliminate manpower and the old "gandy dancers". Even today, the Roadway Shops in Charlotte/Engineering Department devote a large amount of time to experimentation and improvement to Tamper, Kershaw, and Nordberg machinery. They have sold patents and improvements back to these companies that were developed right there in Charlotte. I watched them doing it, and was sometimes involved in a small way in their 'fiddling" with machines to make 'em work better.

An aside. The old wye track used to be right behind the Roadway Shop. NW 611 used to turn in there when it came to Charlotte, and the radius was TIGHT. That big 4-8-4 used to make the track structure creak, groan and snap as they inched that big engine sloooooowly around. Track Supervisor Webb used to really wince as the crew slowly signed the train around. Good track maintenance, I reckon!

The old Seaboard station in Charlotte, I used to take Interchange bills over there, and it looked like it was about to fall in! Part of the the ceiling actually DROOPED down over the old passenger waiting room, and I was a bit scared to go in there!~ The CSX guys didn't seem to pay any mind to it. Me, I would run in right quick, plop the bills down, and get the heck out of there!

GF
the wye. It never went on the ground, tho it SOUNDED like it might a time or two!

COEN/GADFLY: from speaking with quite a few RR guys who work at both CSX and NS, what you state is exactly what they told me. NS track is some of the best maintained in the country. Supposedly the loco's too, but I know when someone makes a statement like that they usually get alot of reply's arguing "that all the class 1's equipment is the same, just different colors". Like the old "Ford vs Chevy" arguement. I guess unless you've worked at several different RR companies, it would be hard to be accurate about such a statement. With the RR's seemingly NOT hiring too many former RR workers, there are not alot of guys who have worked for different companies (I'm referring to freight, not so much passenger). I heard from a few though and they all did say that NS had the best maintained track, period. I guess take it for what it's worth.

Gadfly wrote:

I remember the VERY particular track maintenance from Southern Railway. They were/are very "persnickety" about it. Their philosophy is that is it better to take the expense hits NOW by keeping the RoW tip top because it will pay dividends in the long run. Fewer derailments, less costly repairs by staying on top of it. Southern was one of the first to mechanize track maintenance by inventing/improving machinery to eliminate manpower and the old "gandy dancers". Even today, the Roadway Shops in Charlotte/Engineering Department devote a large amount of time to experimentation and improvement to Tamper, Kershaw, and Nordberg machinery. They have sold patents and improvements back to these companies that were developed right there in Charlotte. I watched them doing it, and was sometimes involved in a small way in their 'fiddling" with machines to make 'em work better.

The C&O (Chessie System) took care of it's track. I remember the last of the "gandy dancers" in the early '80s. Like the Southern with Norfolk Western our problems came with the merger with the Seaboard Coastline. There weren't MOW crews assigned to a specific trackage after it. Machinery did indeed eliminate manpower. During the early '90s till 2003 under CSX CEO John Snow very little funds were used to maintain the railroad. They closed most of the roundhouses locomotives were junk. At times which is still happening today we would carry defective locomotives on the rear of the consists till they finally puked out. It never made sense to take a $2 million piece of machinery an abuse it. I was stuck in Crew Virginia on the NS when we were diverted during a flood of the James River. By the time the NS got us pilots we violated the hours of service. I got to talking to a trainmaster over there about modernization of the railroads. CSX by that time took their crew callers and train dispatchers and centralized them system wide in Jacksonville, Fla. When asking the TM if NS was planning to do the same he smiled and stated "CSX is our best friend they spend multi-millions of dollars trying all these experiments if it works we might consider it if it doesn't it saved us a lot of money". Centralized train dispatching has been eliminated on CSX the last two years going to region dispatch centers. One example was a computer virus hit CSX Train Dispatch Center in Jacksonville about 5-6 years ago. The entire 30,000 miles of railroad was shut down. I got called to work that afternoon the crew room was wall to wall people no one could get paperwork and nothing was moving. A friend called my cell phone to tell me to mark off don't go to work it was all over CNN and other news media. It was to late with 10 hours on duty with faxed orders by verbal permission of the train dispatcher we had to put every mainline switch on hand thrown. We made it 18 miles parked the train in a siding. The PTI van service was backed up it took 4 hours to pick us up off the train. Total time on duty to go 18 miles 17 1/2 hours. Bad part I didn't bring a big lunch I called the yardmaster before going to work that day he stated it'll be an easy trip straight shot down then deadhead back. The virus happened right before I stepped on the property. Lesson learned always carry a big lunch. lol

COEN77

In the earlier days of computers, there were "main frames" located in most agencies like Charlotte. These had to be kept in an air conditioned room at a certain temperature or they would go down. One hot, August day we had a thunderstorm and a lightning strike-----CRACK!!!-------which trashed the air conditioners, and, of course, the computers went down. These controlled the T & E time, the yard tracks and car inventory, and waybilling---among other things. There was PANIC in "River City", let me tell you! Every clerk on the District was called to work, all vacations were cancelled, and every clerk that could be found was told to "git your can IN here NOW!" They even "borrowed" other clerks on the Division and from other terminals. Git here no matter what! Except for the Operators (who had to observe the Hours of Service law), we worked for 18 hours straight, went home for about 5 hours sleep, were called again for ANOTHER 18 hours, and for another 7 hours the next day until they got the air conditioners working again. It-was-a-MADHOUSE! Since it was a declared emergency, you couldn't refuse or mark off under the Agreement. Talk about TIRED! We had to walk EVERY track in the yard, book every car, build every train, type every waybill on a typewriter, and stay on the phone with the Yardmaster every minute. They couldn't produce Work Orders, or NUT'TIN'! We were DOWN for the count, buddy! Some of us worked 18 hours in the daytime, others worked 18 hours at night. We had so many people in the Yard and Freight Office, we were bumping into each other! It was tough those 2-3 days, but the paycheck was nice!