PVL passing sidings/off-peak trains

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Yes, it probably will be a long while, but it shouldn't be too hard to build another siding.

It will be decades before NJT even looks at more improvements on this line. The signals and interlockings were redone as part of the design, the technical details of which I don't presume to know. Look how long any planning such as the Cut-off and MOM take. Its not just a matter of laying an extra track. If it hadn't been for the NIMBY's, the work would be done and ready to go, and incorporated into any even better new schedule, with more room for expansion in the future. This is a cautionary tale: when NJ Transit wants to give a line more service and more capacity, at no charge to the local communities, don't fight them!

sorry, double post

Charlie7 wrote:

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Yes, it probably will be a long while, but it shouldn't be too hard to build another siding.

It will be decades before NJT even looks at more improvements on this line. The signals and interlockings were redone as part of the design, the technical details of which I don't presume to know. Look how long any planning such as the Cut-off and MOM take. Its not just a matter of laying an extra track. If it hadn't been for the NIMBY's, the work would be done and ready to go, and incorporated into any even better new schedule, with more room for expansion in the future. This is a cautionary tale: when NJ Transit wants to give a line more service and more capacity, at no charge to the local communities, don't fight them!

You can't compare adding two sidings to restarting service on the Cutoff. The entire project cost $39 million for 4 sidings, upgraded grade crossings and an upgraded signaling system. The Cutoff is estimated at $551 million. The cutoff, MOM etc. require Major Investment Studies and other major planning before they commence. Adding two sidings would not.

If the NIMBYs changed their mind, it would take a few years to budget the money and fit it into NJTR's work schedule, but not decades.

finsuburbia wrote:If the NIMBYs changed their mind

A VERY big if which could take a long time to be realized.

NIMBY's tend to be fanaticals more often than not. Try telling a fanatical that they are wrong.

nick11a wrote:NIMBY's tend to be fanaticals more often than not. Try telling a fanatical that they are wrong.

Maybe I should have phrased that differently...

The non-NIMBYs are by far the majority in these towns. Once the service picks up, there will be a higher demand for better service which can help drown out the NIMBYs. It's interesting to note that the press release about the new service has a quote from the Mayor of Montvale, which was one of the towns leading the NIMBY charge.

Also, the press release mentions about better service coming with THE Tunnel. I don't know if it meant better service because of the tunnel or improvements to complement the tunnel. Maybe I am reading too much into it.

Well, remember, NJT could have just turned all of the offpeak service in North Hackensack. I think there is more to say about seeing a train skipping all of the stops then not seeing the train at all. Seeing the train fly by, stopping the cars on your road, but not servicing your comunity is a big reminder that you tried to prevent the service increases, and you got what you wanted, no service increases for you.

I am rather annoyed that some of those towns got the increase they did. If it was about making a point, it should have been either a zero service increase, or a little tease, like only have 1 or 2 more trains each direction stop there, and make them at inconvinet times, like 2pm and 11pm. NJT could argue that they gave the service increase, but could argue that without the additional sidings, they needed to run the rest of them express to get out of the way of the other train.

I personally think a 1am departure from Hoboken would be a great idea. Lots of padding in the schedule between every stop, no L stops, and the engineer should be very generous with blowing the horn. Oh, and this train should make ALL stops. There you go Oradell, here is your service increase. We didn't forget about you.

Just some thoughts from a daily PVLer on the issues discussed here over the last few days...

The time for siding construction has passed. The perfect spot for a siding was from the former New Milford Station (by the old water plant) up to Oradell. The room is there to the east of the existing tracking because this is where a double track once existed. The Oradell NIMBYs took care of this possible siding though.

North of Oradell, you would be hard pressed to find any room at all along the existing ROW. You might have been able to squeeze one in from Emerson to Westwood. The rest of the way, right on up to Montvale, the ROW is really squeezed by businesses and residences along either side. In the area of Woodcliff Lake, you also have topography working against you.

I think the NIMBY factor in towns like Oradell, Westwood and Hillsdale will also remain a hurdle to future track expansion. These towns clearly fancy themselves as upperscale Bergen County communities, with the mere presence of an active rail line going against they're idea of quiet, upscale bedroom communities. To further underscore this point, Westwood clearly has a speed restriction applied as we pass through on the expresses.

Not providing service to the NIMBY towns is a great way to get back at them...but remember, NJT needs to make money too. I def see service levels expanding along the line over time.

The business district in Pearl River is small (not as large as Hillsdale or Westwood), and is centered right around the station.

I am very much looking forward to this increased level of service. I'm already planning some weekend trips into the city through Hoboken.

duey wrote:I think the NIMBY factor in towns like Oradell, Westwood and Hillsdale will also remain a hurdle to future track expansion. These towns clearly fancy themselves as upperscale Bergen County communities, with the mere presence of an active rail line going against they're idea of quiet, upscale bedroom communities. To further underscore this point, Westwood clearly has a speed restriction applied as we pass through on the expresses.

Allendale, Ridgewood, Mahwah and Ramsey also fit this "upperscale Bergen County community" stereotype yet they have frequent rail service throughout the day and NIMBYism is minimum. In fact, Ridgewood is one of the most used stations on the Main/Bergen County lines.

M&Eman wrote:Allendale, Ridgewood, Mahwah and Ramsey also fit this "upperscale Bergen County community" stereotype yet they have frequent rail service throughout the day and NIMBYism is minimum. In fact, Ridgewood is one of the most used stations on the Main/Bergen County lines.

But those communities have had significant rail service for quite some time. Also, I don't believe the ROW is at grade through those towns, which is a big factor on the PVL.

The ROW is at grade in most of the Bergen County line towns.

duey wrote:

M&Eman wrote:Allendale, Ridgewood, Mahwah and Ramsey also fit this "upperscale Bergen County community" stereotype yet they have frequent rail service throughout the day and NIMBYism is minimum. In fact, Ridgewood is one of the most used stations on the Main/Bergen County lines.

But those communities have had significant rail service for quite some time. Also, I don't believe the ROW is at grade through those towns, which is a big factor on the PVL.

While much of the line in this area is grade separated, I can think of a few grade-crossings in Ho-Ho-Kus (which also belongs on this list) and Allendale as well as 1 in Ridgewood. I have never travelled the line north of Allendale so I have no clue about Ramsey and Mahwah.

ramsey main street has one and then there is another one just east of that. waldwick has a crossing.

There are plenty of crossings along the BCL portion, not sure about hte main line.

Waldwick doesn't at the station but at the other end of the yard, I believe WC interlocking. Ramsey, you are correct about. Mahwah doesn't have any. The PVL has many of them, but they diminish a little in NY State.

duey wrote: But those communities have had significant rail service for quite some time. Also, I don't believe the ROW is at grade through those towns, which is a big factor on the PVL.

The BCL was once the freight and passenger main line of the Erie Railroad. My Dad tells me of the trains that come through Garfield back in the day. The PVL was always a sleepy branch line, so the communities don't have a historic memory of greater levels of traffic. This doesn't give the NIMBY's an excuse, it just shows their lack of imagination.