Proposed Boston - Concord, NH Route Discussion

BandA wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 1:29 pm Presumably, when you contract for trains, you hire the one with the lower bid, the one with the lower costs. So which of these two likely has lower costs?

There are also questions about if you can get more Feddybucks by hiring Amtrak than hiring a state agency.

Given available equipment and crew, Amtrak will run whatever number of trains the state wants to pay for and charge whatever the state says, just like Hartford Line. If they hire the MBTA they can just extend existing trains, if they go with Amtrak they have to get MA to agree to subsidize the MA portion of the route and to provide train slots.

I don't think the IIJA Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail grant program has a requirement for a competitive operator bid for a new service so NH could probably just present a proposal with Amtrak as operator. When CTDOT did the Hartford Line much of the funding came from the Obama stimulus bill and I believe some of the funding they got did require them to do a competitive bid for the operator of the CTrail service. Although CTrail resembles a commuter service I believe it's officially an intercity feeder service due to the way the work was funded.

BandA wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 1:29 pm If they go with Amtrak they have to get MA to agree to subsidize the MA portion of the route and to provide train slots.

There is no requirement that Massachusetts pay for anything. There is already a train serving the Massachusetts portion that corridor. Under the Downeaster model, for example, funding comes from fare revenue, federal grants, and direct subsidy by the state of Maine. Neither New Hampshire nor Massachusetts pay anything, despite the train operating and making stops in both states. If New Hampshire wants a train, New Hampshire can pay for the train.

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 1:49 pm

This belief (that the MBTA is an irredeemably corrupt quagmire, much like most of Mass. politics) is exactly the reason that I never thought the proposed extension of the Haverhill line into Plaistow, NH was going to go anywhere.

That was more about the opposition to the layover yard that was going to be in Plaistow than it was about the MBTA running the service.

Yes, but it was going to be an MBTA yard and I believe the T's promises at the time were mistrusted for the same reasons I stated.

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:36 am If New Hampshire wants a train, New Hampshire can pay for the train.

At least part of the problem, according to what I've read, is NH legislators arguing that a Boston - Concord train only serves a portion of the state, so why should the whole state pay for it?

To which I say: extend the train to White River Junction. A Boston - WRJ route would be about the same length as the Downeaster, would extend service to the Upper Valley, and might draw a buy-in from Vermont.

All that's missing is about 60 miles of track. Track has been lifted from Boscawen (just north of Concord) to within about two miles of White River Junction. Most of the right-of-way is now "rail trail".

At least part of the problem, according to what I've read, is NH legislators arguing that a Boston - Concord train only serves a portion of the state, so why should the whole state pay for it?

Those are just your typical clueless legislators who have no idea how passenger rail works or how it benefits even the areas it doesn't serve. A 2019 survey by the Saint Anselm College Survey Center shows that most NH Residents are in fact in support of extending Passenger Rail into NH. (https://manchesterinklink.com/poll-show ... ion-to-nh/)

NH wants Passenger Rail, but clearly these legislators could care less and want to stop it at all costs, because to them spending money on rail is wasteful.

Everyone wants a train, but they all want somebody else to subsidize it.

Does New Hampshire have any Amtrak routes? What would be the advantages to the state to have this route? Yes, I'm a big believer in passenger rail, just wondering about the specifics here.

Amtrak's Vermonter and Downeaster services pass through New Hampshire. Claremont Jct. NH is a stop on the roughly 28 mile section of the New England Central between Bellows Falls VT and Windsor VT. The Downeasters have stops in Exeter, Durham (Univ. of NH) and Dover on the roughly 40 miles between Haverhill MA and the Maine state line. New Hampshire provides no funds for either service but the four NH stops do generate revenue.

New Hampshire's anti-railroad bias has been pretty consistent for the last few decades, across political lines. The state owns most remaining track north of Dover and Concord, and some west of Nashua.

If it comes from the Amtrak stimmy, surely it can eventually wash its face or at least establish itself in the state, and then see if it embeds and political opinion is more favorable.

It seems such a no-brainer to me, even though it's more outer commuter/regional than 'inter-city' in length. And would benefit from high frequency - and possibly use in both directions / counter-peak, being on a neat corridor of different cities. I think it would be a game changer.

It is puzzling the big difference in rail attitudes in Vermont and New Hampshire? NH does not support Downeaster and Maine subsidies the DE. Why not charge any NH passenger fares to be the same amount to/from Wells to any other station along route to BON? Not knowing how NH & ME get along can someone from there elaborate.

west point wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 2:19 am It is puzzling the big difference in rail attitudes in Vermont and New Hampshire?

As much as I love passenger rail and have enjoyed it since May 1960, New Hampshire is not disposed to fantasy, not matter how much we'd like it and enjoy it.

There is nothing about passenger rail that makes it a "fantasy" as proven by the entire world, including NH's own next door neighbor Vermont. NH is just run by a clueless legislature that doesn't want to invest in passenger rail because they have no idea how it works, thankfully it seems like this may change sometime in the future, but only time will tell when.

Proto-libertarian - oh, except for roads and highways as a whole, and actually, anything else which personally benefits me / my generation.

Yep, sounds about right. Inscrutable ideals

New opinion article by Casey Holt on the Manchster Ink Link in support of restoring Passenger Rail in NH.
https://manchesterinklink.com/on-the-su ... -of-fancy/