• Private equipment collection at Colonie and Glenmont

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by nessman
 
eolesen wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:36 pm Still seems safer to move on panel track than to try and perform a lift onto a trailer.... bring in a couple dumptrucks full of ballast to put the panels over if needed. Rails and ties will transfer the load a lot better than rubber tires or jack pads...
Any track in or out of that area hasn't been used / maintained in decades. That and it's likely some of those wheels won't turn. It's all gotta be lifted out of there.
  by NHV 669
 
A panel track to where? There's no active access to the site, let alone the fact that the bridge to the active track no longer exists.
  by nessman
 
GLENMONT, N.Y. — A pair of historic and rare New York Central electric locomotives stranded at a power plant near Albany, N.Y., will be heading to a new home in Connecticut in the coming weeks. The Danbury Railway Museum acquired the two vintage electric locomotives — S-1 6000, built by Alco/GE in 1904, and T-3a 278, built in 1926 — back in 2013, but has been unable to move them. Now the owner of the land says the rare locomotives need to go. Stan Matyda, a board member of the museum, said that the move is expected to cost upwards of $160,000 and that it was expected to begin in the coming days.

https://railfan.com/historic-new-york-c ... -be-moved/
  by nessman
 
Another update...

So far no progress. Port of Albany doesn't want to spend $$ on a temporary road, and PSEG doesn't seem to be on board. No plans - just hopes and dreams at this point.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article ... 078900.php
But while preservationists have secured a new home for the rail cars at the Danbury Railway Museum in Connecticut, and nearly half a million dollars in funding to move the cars, a way to actually move them has yet to be found.

“What we’re looking to happen is for (Port of Albany) to build a road first so we can get the locomotives out of the way, so that they can start on their project,” said Marsh. “If not, we’re all stuck here.”

Just atop a steep hill behind the rail cars is Route 144 — Marsh and his colleagues are hoping for a road to be paved so side arm bulldozers can pick up the cars and carry them the few hundred yards to the main road. The only other option they have considered would be to pave a different road that would lead into neighboring PSEG, an electric utility company, and go through their property to get to Route 144.

“We have looked at (building a road) and some of the limitations we have are making it hard for getting any road built,” said Richard Hendrick, CEO of Port of Albany. “At the end of the day, I can’t spend a lot of money to build a road that would then just be plowed up.”
  by nessman
 
pablo wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:56 am So, a new problem has presented itself, with the same likely outcome headed our way
Indeed. And the Port's CEO is correct. Being a public authority, they have spend public funds judiciously.

It comes down to this:

  • Spend 100's of thousands of New York taxpayer dollars to build a temporary specialized heavy-haul road for the sole purpose of removing the antique locomotives in poor condition for the benefit of a museum located in Connecticut - and do so knowing that it's a high-risk endeavor that puts the Port of Albany in a spot where they are ultimately liable if someone is hurt or injured - not to mention the environmental risks if those things are still laden with asbestos and PCB's, and risks to National Grid's infrastructure.
  • Sign a contract with a scrap metal company to come in, chop the stuff to pieces and haul out via conventional over the road trucks at their cost (and get paid with the value of the scrap metal). The current value of scrap steel/iron is about $300/ton. That's ~789 tons of locomotives and passenger cars sitting there - $236,000 worth. Plus the scrap value of the rails they sit on. I'd be sure at this point the Port of Albany has a contractor lined up to start scrapping those things if the Dansbury RR Museum folks can't move that stuff out of there in time.
  by BR&P
 
I'm not familiar with the layout there. Would it be possible to drag the equipment along the rails to a spot accessible to a smaller crane and flatbeds? Disassemble the equipment into smaller components which would not require megabucks and sidewinders to move it out of there? Truck the pieces to the museum and reassemble there at a later time? Or is there just no way to get at them with anything?

FWIW, do not underestimate the ability of two of those big wrecker trucks which they use to pick up wrecked semi's. Two of those would probably still be less expensive than a mammoth crane or a couple D9 sidebooms. The two which load the pieces at Albany would NOT have to drive all the way to the museum, save $ by hiring two more closer to home for the UNloading job. I have seen two of those pick up a GE 45 tonner, hold it in the air while a lowboy backed under, and then set it down on the truck. Does something along those lines allow a smaller, cheaper road to be built for the project, or still no possible way?
  by nessman
 
From the Dansbury RR Museum...

https://www.facebook.com/DanburyRR/post ... 9883614012
We have determined the RS-3 to be too far gone to save.

We have also determined that given it's rarity, and the fact it operated in Danbury under Conrail, U25B #2510 was worthy of consideration to be saved and relocated to Danbury. We spent time securing the engine, and testing its air brakes while we waited for a move quote, and upon receiving one we are disheartened to say that at this time we will not be pursuing saving this locomotive due to the logistics of this endeavor and that is cost prohibitive.
So those two will be scrapped on site. That's $75,000 worth of scrap.
  by nessman
 
BR&P wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:17 am I'm not familiar with the layout there. Would it be possible to drag the equipment along the rails to a spot accessible to a smaller crane and flatbeds? Disassemble the equipment into smaller components which would not require megabucks and sidewinders to move it out of there? Truck the pieces to the museum and reassemble there at a later time? Or is there just no way to get at them with anything?
That's the problem. The electric motors are pretty much at the end of the track but they're surrounded by soft/swampy land that's contaminated, steep terrain between their location and the nearest road, two rivers and an electric generation plant with transmission towers/lines and high-pressure natural gas lines along the best possible path out of there. It's 100% risk and 0% reward for the power company to get involved. Power plants don't like risk.
FWIW, do not underestimate the ability of two of those big wrecker trucks which they use to pick up wrecked semi's. Two of those would probably still be less expensive than a mammoth crane or a couple D9 sidebooms. The two which load the pieces at Albany would NOT have to drive all the way to the museum, save $ by hiring two more closer to home for the UNloading job. I have seen two of those pick up a GE 45 tonner, hold it in the air while a lowboy backed under, and then set it down on the truck. Does something along those lines allow a smaller, cheaper road to be built for the project, or still no possible way?
Yup - and in those situations, you gotta do what you gotta do. But they're not derailed trains leaking fuel or hazmat materials and blocking active rail lines. In that case, the wreckers are coming in to remove stuff quickly without regard to not scratching paint. If you've ever seen a derailment cleanup, they're not being gentle with the wrecked engines or rolling stock!

They're on an abandoned track that's landlocked in every worst possible way. We're talking about stuff that weighs 117 to 143 tons each. This is a worst case scenario for removing locomotives destined for preservation - which is what makes this all the more interesting.

My guess is the 4 passenger cars will be scrapped - they're too far gone. The RS-3 and U25B are confirmed as being scrapped. So that leaves the two electrics that they need to find a way to get out of there safely.
  by Scott K
 
Dumb question, but I'm curious. How will the scrapping equipment, trucks and such, get in there (and out with the remains), either?
  by pablo
 
And they won't be going anywhere, either.

Have the two been in fact tested to be sure they DON'T have hazmat materials (PCBs and the like) within?

If anything comes back positive, they'll be done lickety split.
  by BR&P
 
nessman wrote:
Yup - and in those situations, you gotta do what you gotta do. But they're not derailed trains leaking fuel or hazmat materials and blocking active rail lines. In that case, the wreckers are coming in to remove stuff quickly without regard to not scratching paint. If you've ever seen a derailment cleanup, they're not being gentle with the wrecked engines or rolling stock!
No, you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about train wrecks - I'm quite familiar with the sidewinders as used by Winters, Corman, Hulcher and others. I'm talking about highway tow trucks, see below. And my suggestion was not about loading the electrics out whole, but IF they could be made accessible, using one or two of those trucks to load out pieces, which could be handled with less problems than an entire unit.
45 tonner being loaded out from KSRY.jpg
However -
The electric motors are pretty much at the end of the track but they're surrounded by soft/swampy land that's contaminated, steep terrain between their location and the nearest road, two rivers and an electric generation plant with transmission towers/lines and high-pressure natural gas lines along the best possible path out of there
So it sounds like my idea still would not be practical. :(
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  by eolesen
 
You might be able to get wreckers in there, but there's no solid road to get a heavy haul trailer in or out with the load.

That's why I suggested using the remaining rails to try and get then to a more accessible spot. That sounds impractical as well.

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  by nessman
 
eolesen wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:36 am You might be able to get wreckers in there, but there's no solid road to get a heavy haul trailer in or out with the load.

That's why I suggested using the remaining rails to try and get then to a more accessible spot. That sounds impractical as well.
The S-motor is to be removed in one piece and that's a 234,000 lb piece of machinery that's over 100 years old and sitting in the elements for decades. Add the weight of the side-boom wreckers and then eventually the Schnable trailer to put this thing on for transport - and that's a LOT of weight to move out of there - requiring room for turns and be level enough as to not bottom out the trailer.

The rails this stuff is on now is all landlocked... no bridge to the north, hilly terrain to the south from being covered up with dirt from the wetlands remediation project when they built the new power plant. That and nothing has moved on these rails since 1970 when the plant stopped burning coal. Likely zero maintenance since then. I wouldn't move a hi-railer over this stuff - those ties are all rotted by now. All that track would have to be rebuilt and reballasted - and land cleared on the PSEG property. Not worth the $$ for a single hospital move.

There's a siding to the CSX track to the west, but that too hasn't seen use in decades and as such is also in poor condition. I'd have to think by now the switch to that siding has been pulled but hard to tell from satellite imagery.

I pulled this together on Google Earth to show the obstacles that are in the way. There's no way PSEG will allow access to their property to make this happen. Direct access to the main road is too steep - 25-30% grade across National Grid's ROW with power lines above and natural gas pipelines below. 100% risk and 0 benefit. I work in that industry for a living - one mishap and you're putting lives, electric lines and generation facilities and/or natural gas pipelines at risk.
Glenmont Features.jpg
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  by Kuyahoora Valley
 
We had permission from PSE&G in 2006 to remove the fill that covered the track to the equipment where the gate is shown. At that time we could have moved the equipment up to the siding to CSX which still had the switch in place. Could have easily craned to heavy duty flat cars. At that time the RS3 and U25 had potential but by 2008 had been heavily vandalized for copper. We had a cash offer into M&H chapter NRHS at the time which was ignored. A viable BoD would have at least provided a written response to such an offer and it would have been voted on at a board meeting. Sad
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