• Private equipment collection at Colonie and Glenmont

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by NaugyRR
 
This popped up in my Google News Feed today, an article published by Trains Magazine this morning...
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... comotives/
Fair Use:
According to project co-leader Stan Madyda, a former museum president and current board member, “The land that surrounds the locomotives is soft and swampy, with coal dust from the power plant. Still the biggest [issue] is how we’re getting equipment into the site and how we’re getting them off the site.” The S-1 weighs 113 tons; the T-3a weighs 146 tons.
It appears nothing has been moved yet, and the DRM is still accepting donations to foot the bill.
  by nessman
 
At some point those things will need to be taken out of there one way or another. The property owner is under no obligation to keep the locomotives or rolling stock intact. Regardless of "ownership" they're abandoned property.

Without a proper staging area and heavy-haul road to move them out on using specialized equipment, it'll be damn near impossible to move them in one piece under those kinds of soil conditions (including contamination from coal ash storage) and the surrounding topography. Impossible? No. But this kind of job is difficult and expensive.

At work we just had 4 new large transformers hauled in (around 375,000 lbs each dry and without appurtenances connected to them) and it was a major logistical challenge getting them on the property safely under relatively ideal conditions. This location is far from ideal and the equipment has been deteriorating in the elements for decades.

Hate to say it, but the lack of progress and the logistics and schedule pressure to get those things out of there - along with the cost, liability and safety considerations - the safest, most practical and economical way to get those things out of there will be in small pieces. Not a fitting end for all that stuff, but you can thank the local NRHS chapter for dooming those things to that fate.

I would love for somebody to prove me wrong.

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  by nessman
 
pablo wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:57 pm Nessman is correct, and this stuff will all get scrapped in place. Been following this for decades...back to when I was a kid and would see the APRR in action.
I think at the end of the day, the risk managers and lawyers from the Port of Albany and PSE&G will not approve any plans to haul this stuff out intact. The liability is too great and if someone gets hurt or killed in the process - lawyers will have a field day with this.

I would love to see this stuff get hauled out of there intact, if anything, just to see how the logistics and planning behind it - along with the technical aspect and process of doing the actual work. It would make a cool Science or Discovery Channel documentary.

But look at the stuff that was sitting in the D&H Colonie Yard all those years... the stuff that got out in one piece was not without its challenges either. The reality there was everything else was still scrapped in place. \
  by mackdave
 
The RS-3 will probably go out in pieces, there is so little of it left, and there are many others around the country. Similar fate for the U25B, it's not the "last" one, although it is becoming one of the last ones. Currently the funding to move it isn't there. There are two other S Motors extant, but they're in the midwest. The T Motor is the only example left and the Port Authority is onboard with the rescue. There is funding and detailed plans to get the S and T out of there. Statements of the disposition which are opinions don't help the cause. There are a lot of dedicated folks working diligently on this as this is written, let's let them do what they do. The planning, routing and permitting aren't seen as progress, but it has to happen before the work at the site begins.

Dave Mackay
  by nessman
 
So how exactly are they gonna get that stuff out of there? We hear about plans, but never hear the details.
  by nydepot
 
So it'll either work or not work (getting them out). Pretty simple. If a person's not involved in the attempt, why do they need to know the details? I'm not involved, live no where near it, don't give a * what the details are. If they get them out, great. If they don't, someone's got some scrap metal money to use.

Reminds me of this tweet from earlier in the month:
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  by nessman
 
nydepot wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:04 pm So it'll either work or not work (getting them out). Pretty simple. If a person's not involved in the attempt, why do they need to know the details? I'm not involved, live no where near it, don't give a * what the details are. If they get them out, great. If they don't, someone's got some scrap metal money to use.
Why does it have to be a guarded secret? Why wouldn't the process of getting 4 abandoned locomotives out of a landlocked track in the middle of a contaminated swamp surrounded by terrain, a power plant and a river be interesting? I'm just curious as to how they're actually gonna pull it off and how much it'll ultimately cost.
  by NaugyRR
 
Have you tried contacting the DRM and possibly making a donation? They're pretty friendly folks down there, a polite phone call or e-mail might prove productive.
  by pablo
 
nessman wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:16 pm Why does it have to be a guarded secret? Why wouldn't the process of getting 4 abandoned locomotives out of a landlocked track in the middle of a contaminated swamp surrounded by terrain, a power plant and a river be interesting? I'm just curious as to how they're actually gonna pull it off and how much it'll ultimately cost.
I'm pretty sure every so often someone comes along and gets mad about the fact that "people are working very hard" and assuming that people questioning the process are simply being negative for the heck of it.

I have both attempted to save old locomotives/rolling stock AND am currently engaged in a railroad preservation project. It's as simple as this: lots of people think we're moving Atlas HO locomotives from one track to the next, and lose track of the scale of the project. They simply don't get it.

The Port Authority has deep pockets. If they need to create some sort of portable/temporary track to get stuff out, when that stuff moves, that will be the only chance anything else has to get out in one piece. Privacy being what it is...there's no guarantee any move will be publicized, and I won't be surprised if the stuff is out in a day, and the temp track removed within 24 hours...if one is even needed. They'll be done and gone before you even knew it.

The less foaming around such a move, the better for everyone.
  by BR&P
 
And as food for thought - there seems to be no end these days to the things that people get upset about. No matter what is planned, there will be somebody with a reason why it should not happen. Somewhere on that property may be a turtle or a bird or a plant or an arrowhead which will get somebody's shorts in a twist. Next thing you know there will be injunctions, studies, lawsuits, protesters, and general PITA. Often the less said, the better.

On the other hand, someone mentioned making a donation. I bet the bigger the donation, the more info one could get. :wink:
  by nessman
 
Like I said, I'm just curious as to how that stuff is getting out of there in one piece and at what cost. If they can pull it off - awesome! But like I said that's gonna require some really deep pockets. So yeah, I'm skeptical.
  by mackdave
 
The pockets for the move of the motors are deep, but not unlimited. The S motor will go out in one piece, as it was built that way, the T motor will go in three pieces, body, front and rear truck assemblies. Right now, the hold up is placing the cranes and over-the -road trucks on firm ground to hold the weight. The port authority has to improve the property to do what they want to do, the question is if that can be used to advance the move.

Mackdave
  by eolesen
 
Still seems safer to move on panel track than to try and perform a lift onto a trailer.... bring in a couple dumptrucks full of ballast to put the panels over if needed. Rails and ties will transfer the load a lot better than rubber tires or jack pads...
  by nessman
 
So I found the Supplemental Final Environmental Impact Statement for the project on the Town of Bethlehem's website, along with the site plans here: https://www.portofalbany.us/public-reco ... documents/

This may be good news. There will be an access road built onto the site for construction and access that will come very close to where the engines are now.

I overlaid the site plan with an aerial from Google Earth - and the red line just beneath the proposed access road is where the engines and rolling stock are located. One of the drawings says train engines to be 'removed by others'. This may very well be doable.

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