Pre-Amtrak: Long distance trains of many cars: employees taking tickets

Q1: On a long distance train which had many cars, how many employees would participate in taking the passenger's tickets? I know this was the responsibility of the Conductor, but on a long train at the beginning of the run did one of the trainmen/brakemen help out on this task?

Q2: For the Pullman Cars... I know there was a Pullman Conductor when there were more than "N" sleeping cars. Was it more than just 1, or did this vary by route?

Q3: I'm assuming that the Pullman Conductor took the passengers Pullman tickets as well as the railroad company's tickets. (Is this true?) If so, if the train ran on multiple railroads did he give each railroad's Conductor his own company's tickets, and hold the rest?

Q4: Did the Pullman Porter deal with the tickets if there was no Pullman Conductor, or did the Railroad Conductor then have to do that?

Q5: I'm assuming that railroad "Train crew" didn't have to deal much with the Pullman passengers, other than when walking through the Pullman cars on their routine "walk throughs", or to flag the rear of the train. Did the Pullman conductor do any "train flagging" or "passing signals" or the like? I've never been sure what "overlap of responsibilities" there was between the "Train Crew" and the Pullman Conductor.

Thank,

John

JohnP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:55 pm Q1: On a long distance train which had many cars, how many employees would participate in taking the passenger's tickets? I know this was the responsibility of the Conductor, but on a long train at the beginning of the run did one of the trainmen/brakemen help out on this task?

So let's see what this fellow, who has more pre-Amtrak mileage to his name than post, can do.

First, only the Conductor could "handle revenue" i.e lift tickets and cut cash fares. If assistance was needed, then additional Assistant Conductors were required to be assigned. Brakemen "protected the head and rear" of the train - and that was the extent of their job under pre-existing labor agreements.

It was indeed "groundbreaking" how, when Amtrak assumed Train employees and negotiated a separate agreement, thal all Train employees would participate in handling revenue.

JohnP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:55 pm Q2: For the Pullman Cars... I know there was a Pullman Conductor when there were more than "N" sleeping cars. Was it more than just 1, or did this vary by route?

If there were more than two Pullman cars on a train, then a Pullman Conductor was required.

JohnP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:55 pm Q3: I'm assuming that the Pullman Conductor took the passengers Pullman tickets as well as the railroad company's tickets. (Is this true?) If so, if the train ran on multiple railroads did he give each railroad's Conductor his own company's tickets, and hold the rest?

For the ticket lift in Pullmans, both the railroad and Pullman Conductors would participate in the lift together. Wasteful, you bet. That practice ended with the Pullman Company's demise on Dec 31 1968.

JohnP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:55 pm Q4: Did the Pullman Porter deal with the tickets if there was no Pullman Conductor, or did the Railroad Conductor then have to do that?

The Porter handled the tickets in the two or less Pullman car trains accompanied by the railroad Confuctor.

JohnP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:55 pm Q5: I'm assuming that railroad "Train crew" didn't have to deal much with the Pullman passengers, other than when walking through the Pullman cars on their routine "walk throughs", or to flag the rear of the train. Did the Pullman conductor do any "train flagging" or "passing signals" or the like? I've never been sure what "overlap of responsibilities" there was between the "Train Crew" and the Pullman Conductor.

Pullman Conductors were not Rules Qualified nor were they subject to Hours of Service. Therefore they had the same standing on board as a Dining Car Steward.

Hope this helps.

I believe the Pullman conductors and porters were also uniquely different from railroad conductors and trainmen in that they stayed with the train or car for the entire trip, over as many different railroads as were involved. They were not required to be "qualified" in the sense that the railroad conductors were, and if they were working the extra board as opposed to having a regular assignment they could be sent anywhere. I think there were some porters of long service who had worked in all 48 contiguous states at one time or another. The Pullman conductor retained the Pullman tickets and turned them in to the Pullman accounting department; the railroad conductor didn't handle Pullman tickets -- two different companies

It's also worth mentioning that for trains leaving their origin late at night there would normally be a temporary desk placed at the train gate manned by both the train and Pullman conductors who would do the necessary before the passenger went through the gate; he would not be disturbed thereafter.

There is a book published by Kalmbach, just out, called PULLMAN / America's Hotel on Wheels, which gives a good overview of the whole operation, including an excellent first-person account by William Moedinger of life as a Pullman conductor. There is also a book by Joe Welsh and (I think) William Howes which covers the whole Pullman history and operations in depth.

In addition, railroad and Pullman conductors asked to pouch the ticket, and maintain it to the trip midpoint. This way, the conductors did not have to view the ticket every three hours or so

Remember: Divisions for service purposes until the 1990s were short by modern standards. Even a freight train could negotiate most of them in four hours. Hours of service have been extended now, and runs can achieve the twelve hour limit.

BUT! At least BNSF has improved. In the 90s and 00s, I regularly saw relief crews motored out to cover the last 25 miles. Now that is a very rare occurrence.

On my big train ride of 1966, on E-L #1, they had a E-L conductor and a Pullman conductor, even though they had only one car supposedly assigned, perhaps during the contraction of services they kept the position open. I believe they had occasional more than one sleeper.

Lot of paperwork to be completed by RR and Pullman employees that still went through clerks after turn in to keep accounts straight. Pullman conductors also sold their space after RR conductor collected road's fare, if space was available. As mentiond Kalmbach put out a book, in addition to a Classic Trains magazine ten or so years ago that was devoted to Pullman, it included a collection of stories of one Pullman conductor's experience [as related by his son].