• Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by mbrproductions
 
Does anybody here have any news about the potential extension of the MBTA Lowell Line up the Merrimack River to Manchester, NH?
Is there stiff opposition to it?
Is there a decent amount of support for it?
Possible station locations?
  by BandA
 
Who's going to pay for it? NH doesn't have a personal income tax, so if the Commuter Rail is taking people to their jobs in Boston then Massachusetts should pay for the subsidy.
  by Trinnau
 
This is in a more advanced study right now as linked in this thread, but the MBTA and MA have enough to do without worrying about NH. Rhode Island pays for their service in their state, provided by the MBTA, even though their passengers come to Boston. NH would be expected to do the same. How they get the funding is up to them.
  by Arborwayfan
 
BandA wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:50 pm Who's going to pay for it? NH doesn't have a personal income tax, so if the Commuter Rail is taking people to their jobs in Boston then Massachusetts should pay for the subsidy.
How do you figure that? Why should Mass pay for something that helps more people live in NH? Those people spend most of their money in NH: buying houses, buying food, buying most everything they buy, paying property tax, buying liquor at state liquor stores, paying restaurant taxes, etc. It's not Mass's fault that NH chooses to leave their citizens' income to be taxed by Mass if they work in Mass (and then socks those same citizens with really high property tax, restaurant tax, and fees after luring them in with the idea of "no income or sales taxes"). The national pattern is the other way: bedroom states and sometimes bedroom suburbs subsidize commuter trains into employment centers in neighboring states: Indiana, with the South Shore Line, might be the most similar to the NH-Mass situation, but RI; Connecticut, with Metro North; New Jersey, with NJT; Virginia, with VRE; Maryland, with MARC service into DC are all (AFAIK) in the same situation.
  by mbrproductions
 
Actually I did some reading after posting this, it seems that Americans For Prosperity New Hampshire, as well as a few other Libertarian writers seem to strongly oppose this project, bringing up the common "rail is a 19th century boondoggle" talking point fallacy. How surprising
  by scratchyX1
 
Oh! I bet there are quotes from Randall O Toole in their press releases.
  by mbrproductions
 
lol, I was just reading about him as I read your comment! as much as a tool that guy is, the comments are actually from some other guy named Greg Moore, who is the state director of the AFP NH
  by scratchyX1
 
Yeah, he's on the other side of the coin to jarrett walker or alon levy,
The way Joker is to Batman.

It's a shame, his knowledge of classic passenger operations is impressive, but his filtering of transportation policy through "libratarian" view point, missed the mark, alot.
  by charlesriverbranch
 
BandA wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:50 pm Who's going to pay for it? NH doesn't have a personal income tax, so if the Commuter Rail is taking people to their jobs in Boston then Massachusetts should pay for the subsidy.
NH won't pay for it, which is why it's unlikely to happen.
  by mbrproductions
 
charlesriverbranch wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:39 pm
BandA wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:50 pm Who's going to pay for it? NH doesn't have a personal income tax, so if the Commuter Rail is taking people to their jobs in Boston then Massachusetts should pay for the subsidy.
NH won't pay for it, which is why it's unlikely to happen.
From what I've heard, NH can't pay for it because they have no property tax and because state law does not allow money made from the highways to be used for anything other than the highways, which is a stupid law if you ask me.
  by neman2
 
The NH thing is like beating a dead horse, there's 115 pages of postings (2007 to 2021) in this thread here---
new-hampshire-commuter-rail-discussion-t41734.html


If you want a good laugh here's the first post from "trainhq" in that thread ---
"Folks, there has been a sea change to the north. Governor Lynch, recognizing that the Downeaster has
been a success, (the new fifth train should start in a few weeks) has decided to support CR big time.
This could mean CR to Nashua by 2010, and even serious consideration of re-opening the Manchester-Lawrence line. Huge breakthough!"
  by mbrproductions
 
Well, it has been sparking discussion, from both supporters and opponents, Pete Buttigieg even went to NH a fe days ago to discuss the project, all that's really standing in the way of this project is how it will be paid for, which is especially a problem in a state like NH
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