Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

"" Those poor NH Taxpayers....will no one HELP them??? ""

They need to help themselves. To keep the New Hampshire tradition of electing a governor who will veto any broad based tax such as a sales tax or income tax.

It's been a long time since I've been around the board here, but I have to chime in on this.. I've been following this topic since the "demonstration service" in the early 1980s shut down.

The biggest thing that seems to get lost in the carved-in-stone scripts that are trotted out to oppose every attempt at getting passenger rail into NH is this...

Opportunity.

Calling it "commuter rail" is god-awful. It should be "regional rail". The damn tracks go right by a connecting road to the Manchester Airport which has been starved for passengers since the Big Dig opened and Southwest Airlines decided to go to Logan. They go by the ballpark that, fortunately, still has a AA-level team playing. They go by the arena that USED to have an AHL team but now only hosts concerts and other events. And then the tracks ALSO go right past the HUGELY successful mill district that has been completely rejuvenated with universities and tech companies refurbishing every brick in sight! You don't see the "Pandora Sweaters" sign up there anymore - it's everything from Autodesk to Texas Instruments and UNH!

The opportunity for "reverse commute" - for rejuvenating the airport's traffic - further improving Manchester's downtown - and giving Nashua a well-needed boost in the process - goes completely ignored - not even addressed by opponents.

...but another billion for another lane on I-93 is ok?

I used to say that the Pheasant Lane Mall would never allow a station (my ex worked there and I knew the mall manager who was very short-sighted). Now, with the way it's failing? You could redevelop parts of the parking to for TOD and put a station there and you wouldn't NEED the degenerate casino that they're putting in the old Sears store.

But until NH gets off it's myopic 1950s-era script that it keeps reading over and over again... Maybe when they see the exodus of youth that is a hidden disaster in the making (the demographics of NH are heading in the same direction as China's) and someone says "Why are all our kids moving out of state?", they might see that there's a reason places with more services are more successful.

I live in a town that is like a Red island in the middle of blue and purple municipalities so maybe I see it here a bit more forcefully than elsewhere... But NH has a lot of steps to go through before some steel wheels roll through with paying passengers. The CSX purchase of the main line seems to be a good start since I actually hear a LOT more trains going through (I can see the line from my bedroom window). But I still doubt we'll see anything in my lifetime (I'm about to turn 62)

>...but another billion for another lane on I-93 is ok?

You are talking about a state DOT that facilitates massive traffic jams on an INTERSTATE all summer/every holiday weekend long because they are too backward to make 5 high speed E-ZPass lanes (vs two) and instead maintain 5 low speed gimme a dollar cash lanes. I say LET THEM CRASH.

New Hampshire will never pay for passenger rail. So, the only way it will ever happen is if someone else pays for it.

Four places in New Hampshire have passenger rail service: Exeter, Dover, and Durham, because the state of Maine pays for it; and Claremont, because the state of Vermont pays for it.

Find someone to pay for service to Manchester and Concord, and it will happen; wait for New Hampshire to come around, and pigs will be flying to the moon first.

Let the T run unsubsidized trains to Nashua, like MARC does to West Virginia. That’s the only way it’d ever happen. Even with the higher fare, I suspect there will be some cohort of New Hampshire residents who’d commute regularly.

The state of West Virginia subsidizes MARC operations west of Brunswick MD.

SEPTA runs into NJ without NJDOT or NJT subsidy, though the Wilmington/Newark service is DelDOT managed and contracted.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:21 am New Hampshire will never pay for passenger rail. So, the only way it will ever happen is if someone else pays for it.

The state's political climate has evolved drastically to the point that it has become a blue state. The only way this service will happen is if NH pays for it. Their refusal thus far is the reason it doesn't already exist.

NH is not a blue state; it's a red state that sends Democrats to Congress. It can certainly afford what its poorer neighbors, Vermont and Maine, subsidize in the way of rail service, but doggedly refuses to do so. I see no sign that's ever going to change. If outside interests, whether on the federal level or in neighboring states, find it beneficial to unclog their highways by subsidizing rail service on the Nashua-Concord corridor, it will happen, but not otherwise, I think.

The other day, I drove past the Concord Coach bus terminal in Concord, and the main parking lot & overflow lots were about as full as I have seen them, which makes me think, "If they build it, they will come"..

In reality, NH is not set up fiscally to build and pay out for such an undertaking. Any politician running for office that runs on adding a sales or income tax will not get very far.. The Democratic Candidate for NH Governor wants to bring commuter rail to NH, however she fails to mention the big question.. How will commuter rail be funded & who pays ??

One of the problems with extending MBTA service into NH is that NH's 400-member House is full of people from communities that won't benefit from the service. In Massachusetts, the political center of gravity is greater Boston, but political power in NH strikes me as far more diffused. How does running trains to Concord benefit, say, Laconia? Or Newport? Or Andover? These are all places where station buildings from the B&M days still stand.

An Amtrak Boston - Montreal corridor on one of the three long abandoned former routes is probably the only way NH will ever see more rail service than it does today, I think.

With the tracks being next to I-93 @ Exit 14, near I-393, and I-89, getting to Concord from anywhere is not a hard task. People certainly picked up the bus there. In reality, with 99.2% surety, commuter rail to Concord will never happen.. 97.2% surety, no passenger choo choos will be running to Manchester anytime soon. Sounds good though??

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:44 am NH is not a blue state; it's a red state that sends Democrats to Congress.

Hence, a blue state.

NH benefits in its entirety from its proximity to Boston proper. The same nonsense "what's in it for me?" argument can be made for expanding I-93 to 20 lanes in each direction (which funnel to 3 in MA), but that doesn't seem to impact funding. As more old hats die off and urban sprawl continues to spill into southern NH, the political climate will continue to change in favor of funding rail.

Kelly Ayotte leads in the latest polls. We might have to wait a few more years before this comes up again.

They are running ads in Maine about the Democrat (Craig) raising their taxes and I'm wondering WHAT taxes? No state tax, no sales tax and I don't believe property taxes are under her control.