Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

nydepot wrote:Max sped was 30mph with a whole lot of 15s and slow orders. Derailments were very common. It was relatively easy to chase if you knew the area.

Operative words: if you knew the area. It might 've been difficult to jog back and forth on back roads that were probably had a 35-40 mph speed limit, especially in an unfamiliar area. Trust me, I've lost track of trains in unfamiliar areas... the difficulty of trying to conduct a chase of the Rochester branch on winding back roads would've been hard.

nydepot wrote: Easiest to follow was the Buffalo line with the road within shooting distance. Then the Rochester and then the Elmira. Elmira had the convenience of Rt 14/414 but it was not close and you needed to keep jutting over to it. It was also a faster line. With the traffic density, people tended to wait at a location and have the trains come to them.

Shaughnessy was taking photos when it was still steam. Again, I talked to him.

I'm not guessing on this stuff. I talked to Shaughnessy and others (1000+ interviews). I'm not an expert but I know firsthand from many people who lived and chased the line what as possible and not.

I'm not doubting that you spoke to Shaughnessy and others. Nor is there any doubt he captured Penny steam on film. Heck, I referred back to source books which have Shaughnessy's photos while researching steam on the PRR for this discussion. However, his photos are in books pertaining to the Elmira Branch. I've seen nothing pertaining to the Rochester Branch. Again, absence of proof and proof of absence are not necessarily the same thing... but the lack of photographs for the Rochester Branch leads me to believe it was not a prime destination for railfans.

I think you're missing something. I've said since the first page of this thread that the line was not heavily photographed or written about:

Me wrote:The big photographers that I've talked to, also skipped the line in favor of lines with more traffic: PRR Buffalo line, Erie Buffalo line, DL&W, LV. Time and cost of materials. More bang for your buck catching dozens of trains on a more travelled line rather than waiting all day for a steam train blasting its way in the gorge across from the Glen Iris.

Still the first page:

Me wrote:The photographers I talked to like Jim Shaughnessy and Dick Steinheimer and others were shooting steam era photos. They preferred steam on the Buffalo or Elmira lines. All agreed the Rochester line was much better scenery-wise but not worth the money and day off from work to yield a single train.

So it never was as heavily shot as other rail lines in NY but it wasn't ignored. It just hasn't been published. Try finding action photos of G&W steam trains. Other than some photos around the G&W engine house or salt mine, there aren't many.

On the other hand, I own hundreds of photos, negatives, and slides of the PRR on the Rochester branch along with over 100+ postcards, regular and real photo. More than you'd find on some other WNY roads.

Matt Langworthy wrote:I'm not doubting that you spoke to Shaughnessy and others. Nor is there any doubt he captured Penny steam on film. Heck, I referred back to source books which have Shaughnessy's photos while researching steam on the PRR for this discussion. However, his photos are in books pertaining to the Elmira Branch. I've seen nothing pertaining to the Rochester Branch. Again, absence of proof and proof of absence are not necessarily the same thing... but the lack of photographs for the Rochester Branch leads me to believe it was not a prime destination for railfans.

Bummer there hasn't been much published on this line, as I really would enjoy seeing it, as well as more of the Elmira Branch (eventually I'll get a copy of Bill Caloroso's book on that line).

Unfortunate that Bob Yanosey's Northern Division book covered none of this line, as mentioned earlier.

Charlie

Rochester Branch pics are not common, as Charles says quite correctly. I have managed to acquire only four depot postcards from the branch - Sonyea, Cuba, Rossburg and Caneadea. The only book I know of with Rochester Branch pics is Triumph VII by Roberts and Messer. Pages 285-292 are devoted to the Rochester Branch. This book is a mandatory reference for anyone interested in the PRR lines in Western New York and Northwestern Pennsylvania. H.T. Guillaume

nydepot wrote:I think you're missing something. I've said since the first page of this thread that the line was not heavily photographed or written about:

Me wrote:The big photographers that I've talked to, also skipped the line in favor of lines with more traffic: PRR Buffalo line, Erie Buffalo line, DL&W, LV. Time and cost of materials. More bang for your buck catching dozens of trains on a more travelled line rather than waiting all day for a steam train blasting its way in the gorge across from the Glen Iris.

Still the first page:

Me wrote:The photographers I talked to like Jim Shaughnessy and Dick Steinheimer and others were shooting steam era photos. They preferred steam on the Buffalo or Elmira lines. All agreed the Rochester line was much better scenery-wise but not worth the money and day off from work to yield a single train.

So it never was as heavily shot as other rail lines in NY but it wasn't ignored. It just hasn't been published. Try finding action photos of G&W steam trains. Other than some photos around the G&W engine house or salt mine, there aren't many.

On the other hand, I own hundreds of photos, negatives, and slides of the PRR on the Rochester branch along with over 100+ postcards, regular and real photo. More than you'd find on some other WNY roads.

I think there's a disconnect here. I fully agree that the Rochester Branch has gotten very little press. My points were theorizing why that press isn't forthcoming... and it looks we came full circle on that one.

BTW< I'm still working on the Buffalo Extension research... and i will put it into a new thread when I find what I need.

I found a number of Rochester Branch pics in the photo index of the Letchworth site, here; http://www.letchworthparkhistory.com/Ph ... chor590397

I also have one good picture of an excursion train, puiled by an M1, in an old Buffalo chapter calendar.

Scott K.

I visited my godparents on Christmas Eve day. They are now living in a trailer park that was the site of the old Erie yard. When I visited as a youth, this area was overgrown and not developed, so I had no clue about its history. I took their dog for a walk and discovered this "shape of a turntable pit" from the Greenway Trail



Sorta looks like the wall of a turntable pit.



This, too.



Here is the relation of the pit to the GreenwayTrail (up the slope where the fence is). The bridge in the background appears to be old.



A closeup of the old bridge. There is no date on it like I had thought.



The culvert under the old canal. A new tunnel was added, but I don't understand why if the old culvert is working.



The second bridge in the trailer park is a very new concrete structure, so I don't think it is related to the railroad.

If I understand correctly, the Erie terminated here and interchanged with the Dansville and Mount Morris RR (the old alignment -- no the DLW one today), and the PRR (formerly Genesee Valley RR that ran along the canal). It is also my understanding there was a small engine house here, too.

RailKevin wrote: If I understand correctly, the Erie terminated here and interchanged with the Dansville and Mount Morris RR (the old alignment -- no the DLW one today), and the PRR (formerly Genesee Valley RR that ran along the canal). It is also my understanding there was a small engine house here, too.

Great pictures!

It would be very helpful if you could tell us where "here" is located.

I've never heard of an engine house. Do you have a map or something?

From a freight yard to a trailer park - now that's about as sad a transition as you can get.....

It's right here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.71 ... 74&zoom=17 . I remember seeing the bridge when we bicycled it in September, but I don't remember seeing the circular fence nor the turntable foundation. The 1900's topo map doesn't show anything there in the way of a yard.

Sorry for not elaborating more on the exact location. Using Russ' map as a guide, the turntable pit is inside the circular drive just south of the creek.

The Historic Map Works 1872 map of Mount Morris (Livingston County Atlas) shows an engine house. However, the turntable is on the wrong side of the creek. Since the TT is so close to the edge of the map, I wonder if they just drew it where it fit.

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /New+York/

The 1902 map shows the TT in the correct location but without an engine house. The "yard" is a bit smallish near the depot, but a yard it is!

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /New+York/

FYI, the area south of the creek was a junk yard before it became a trailer park.

RailKevin wrote:

The second bridge in the trailer park is a very new concrete structure, so I don't think it is related to the railroad.

Yes I believe it is RR's. I ran across very similar design when i was inspecting a culvert on RT 36 near prison in Sonyea. That same design was also set up next to the culvert i was inspecting... There are TWO abandoned lines run along RT 36. I think that one is original line or another RR's and PRR's line ran next to this one.

This one I saw is between Swanson rd and CR 30, just north of prison in Sonyea (actual direction is mostly west of Sonyea) If I knew how to attach the photo to here, I would post photo here.. BTW... I found two bikes, lawnmower and other junks buried in between 2 culverts under rocks from the heavy rain. bikes were probably stolen... but others were carried by flashflood.. no kidding... i have the photos @ work.. even a tank (fuel oil?) which is crushed, hot water tanks and few pipes on other side of rt 36 culvert.

RailKevin wrote: The 1902 map shows the TT in the correct location but without an engine house. The "yard" is a bit smallish near the depot, but a yard it is!

My guess is the TT was a "standalone" affair (ie. no enginehouse) used only for turning locomotives - same as the TT that once existed at Genesee Jct.

Incidentally the dressed stone arched culvert in the photo looks almost identical to one on the canal/railroad ROW just south of the airport (east side of Paul Rd, about across from the John Deere dealer). There are several other similar dressed stone culverts passing beneath the old canal prism in Chili, Scottsville, York, etc.

...FB

This is old news, but I still wanted to let people know.

A new pedestrian bridge was built on the PRR bridge abutments in Mt. Morris. It's 450 foot long!

Article with one pic here:

http://newyorkoutdoors.wordpress.com/20 ... -greenway/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New Pedestrian Bridge over Genesee River in Mt. Morris for Genesee Valley Greenway
June 11, 2012
By Tony D’Imperio, Livingston County News, link to original full post with PHOTOS

Walkers on the Genesee Valley Greenway Trail approaching the Genesee River at Route 36 no longer need to ‘break’ route onto the highway bridge.

Although the highway bridge has a sidewalk, getting to it from the Greenway required trail users to risk their safety — especially in winter — by walking along the roadside of Route 36 and the staying on the apron of Sickles Avenue, a Mount Morris Street without sidewalks. The new pedestrian bridge, dedicated last Saturday, makes an unbroken continuation of the trail across the river, following the route of the old “Pennsy” Railroad that went out of service in 1963.

In fact, the entire Greenway follows the route of the “Pennsy” Railroad, and before that the Genesee Valley Canal, which operated from the 1840s to the 1870s. The piers, constructed using granite to support the railroad bridge, are now bearing — with some modifications — the weight of the pedestrian bridge. “I find it fascinating that the piers are linking the old and the new,” remarked Regional Director of Transportation Bob Traver.