new hours of service standards for RAILROAD personnel?

For the most part rocket scientists do not impact the health and safety of the public in the same vein of power plant workers or railroad workers . I just saw a slight parallel between industrial/public safety requirements of the two industries, especially considering some of the hazardous materials transported by freight railroads, even though that wasn't really the focus of this post originally... Oh well.

Due to the pending HOS changes and required rest periods between trains, should this be adopted, there is a strong possibility that there will be two crew books for T&E service. One for Train Service which would with some exception, be a work-as-directed type of crew book. A job would be a start time/location and finish time/location. The other would be for Engine Service which would be a traditional crew book. Their contractual agreements don't allow us to have it any other way. This would give us flexibility with rest time at least for trainmen, which are the most numerous.

Datenail why do you keep on insisting to spead false information ??

T&E service. One for Train Service which would with some exception, be a work-as-directed type of crew book. A job would be a start time/location and finish time/location.

If that ever comes to fruition you'd better increase the talent level at the stationmaster/ manager level. It would also open the door for the old quid pro quo as well as other obvious problems. You may need a bouncer also as the pretty young train girl gets the one way and the old dude gets the shaft and late wsy finish.

Datenail why do you keep on insisting to spead false information ??

What false information? Unless you have attended FRA seminars and had meetings on the LIRR regarding implementation of the new HOS proposals, like I have, you should stop passing judgement. A question was asked about some of the new HOS proposals being considered. I answered them and the possible LIRR response should they be implemented. Your an Engineer on Metro-North. This position hardly qualifies you to dispute the LIRR response to the new proposals. As a matter of fact, it doesn't qualify you to dispute my statements. I'm not commenting on train handling practices of Metro-North Engineers. When I do, then attack my statements.

If that ever comes to fruition you'd better increase the talent level at the stationmaster/ manager level. It would also open the door for the old quid pro quo as well as other obvious problems. You may need a bouncer also as the pretty young train girl gets the one way and the old dude gets the shaft and late wsy finish.

Eon, if you decide that pretty train girls get a better break on the LIRR than a man does, you should consider wearing the trainmans hat designed for female employees or possibly a dress with flowers printed on it. A little lipstick might finish up your new look and hopefully get you those quits you think the pretty girls get. I promise you that should other employees make fun of you in drag, the LIRR will put all of its resources behind you and punish those that make fun of you. Is this OK with you?

Eon, if you decide that pretty train girls get a better break on the LIRR than a man does, you should consider wearing the trainmans hat designed for female employees or possibly a dress with flowers printed on it. A little lipstick might finish up your new look and hopefully get you those quits you think the pretty girls get. I promise you that should other employees make fun of you in drag, the LIRR will put all of its resources behind you and punish those that make fun of you. Is this OK with you?

Great suggestion. Thanks for having my back on this. It's becoming very clear why you are such a valued member of the lirr management team. Date, come on. You can't be serious. In all your years and vast rr experience you have never witnessed or dare I say even been involved in a situation where an employee may not really be up to a specific job and they may have.....well.....other appreciable attributes/talents that might endear her.....excuse me I mean the employee to a certain supervisor or supervisors? In your "time" here all have been treated in the same fair and equitable way. I won't get into names here because it's not appropriate but there is a "person" returning to our craft after spending many years in management and this person is not a bottom level manager. Having jobs created for them and rising pretty quickly up the ladder.
There are plenty of other examples out there as well.
Lipstick would be obscured by my mustache.

Eon, unless an employee makes a complaint and is able to back it up with facts, there is little the Company can do to stop the kind of behavior you described. Of course there will always be some that are favored and given more attention and others that are not. There is nothing that can be done unless there is solid proof of wrongdoing. It does not matter what I say on this subject. Provide proof and the Company will move to stop it. I suggest that you first discuss this with your union and see if they act on it first.

The suggested remedies for possible new HOS rules was not an attempt to attack your craft. It is a fact that the Engineers Union has negotiated safeguards in their contract that prevent the Company from having employees "work as directed". It cannot be defended in court or in the NMB so we have no choice but to keep a traditional crew book for them. Your union never bothered to negotiate safeguards in your contract or sold them away in an ego driven attempt to achieve pay parity with Engine Service. The benefits of that are obvious, but the drawbacks are equally as obvious. You can look at your craft and find many ways why you should make the same if not more than them. Certainly responsibility, qualification requirements, charge of the train, etc. are all important. But they too have a responsible job for which we are made to come down very hard on them for their mistakes, are equally qualified and have sole charge of thier respective activities (locomotives, train handling and overall movement of the train, etc.). Now sit down with a contract negotiation team and lay this all in front of them. The deciding factor is that they run the trains. Believe me when I tell you, without their contract, you would be working as directed and we would not worry if a Conductor was on the train or not. I'm sorry if this offends you and it is not an attempt to demean your craft. Its simply stating what is obvious.

The suggested remedies for possible new HOS rules was not an attempt to attack your craft. It is a fact that the Engineers Union has negotiated safeguards in their contract that prevent the Company from having employees "work as directed". It cannot be defended in court or in the NMB so we have no choice but to keep a traditional crew book for them. Your union never bothered to negotiate safeguards in your contract or sold them away in an ego driven attempt to achieve pay parity with Engine Service. The benefits of that are obvious, but the drawbacks are equally as obvious. You can look at your craft and find many ways why you should make the same if not more than them. Certainly responsibility, qualification requirements, charge of the train, etc. are all important. But they too have a responsible job for which we are made to come down very hard on them for their mistakes, are equally qualified and have sole charge of thier respective activities (locomotives, train handling and overall movement of the train, etc.). Now sit down with a contract negotiation team and lay this all in front of them. The deciding factor is that they run the trains. Believe me when I tell you, without their contract, you would be working as directed and we would not worry if a Conductor was on the train or not. I'm sorry if this offends you and it is not an attempt to demean your craft. Its simply stating what is obvious.

No need for apologies, I'm not offended in the least. I have no axe to grind with engineers and it's good for them that they have protections. It wasn't my intention to create a divisive post.
There is one thought regarding the crew book for one craft and work as directed for another. That is continuity of the crew. The rr rightfully stresses communication and constant job briefings throughout the work day. I see this as a very positive thing as little miscommunications can lead to whopper mistakes. I just think throwing crews together everyday may prevent people from being on the same page. I know we have protect crews that are different everyday. But most train personnel at the general pick and subsequent revisions have preferences for who they want to work with and who they want to avoid. For varying reasons, work ethic, chronic lateness, communication issues, doesn't play well with others, etc. Just a thought.

Last Week the LIRR was informed that its application for another extension of its exemption to the new federal HOS laws was DENIED.

On a yard Job,the risk to passengers is nil according to date nail.
Not true and date nail exposes his lack of knowledge on railroading. On any yard Job on the LIRR there are reverse moves from yards to the station regularly made. A reverse move means the Engineer stays on one end and the Conductor on the other, and both are involed in the actual movement of the train. The Engineer has his hand on the throttle on one end, and The Conductor Controls the move on the rear end of the train while backing it up.
This is done in virtualy all yards.
West side Yard, there are moves made on the lead tracks to the station, and the crews regularly switch through the station, and interact with Passenger trains.
Blow a switch or a signal and there will be injuries.
Ditto for Jamaica, from Johnson ave to D yard, the yard crews regularly cross over in front of passenger trains with the Conductor on one end and the Engineer on the other.
Also The drill crews in Brooklyn are required to bring trains from the station to VD yard , and back.
Each Yard Job has switching limits which include main track, and crossing over in front of Passenger trains.
I would even go so far to say the risk might be greater for Yard crews, because yard crews regularly back trans through interlockings on main track while the normal passenger crew rarely does that..
If a tired Engineer or Conductor blew a switch or signal at some of these locations, especially Jamaica, there could be fatalities.
I remember working the YE jobs at Jamaica, making a move from Johnson ave to yard D, and backing the train into yard D.( or Yard D to Johnson)
I would come upon a stop signal in the interlocking and of course stop the train.
I remember watching as Passenger trains would go by, and the seriousness of "keeping my head in the game". If I had blown that signal I would have run into the side of that passenger train and ripped it open like a tin can. I understood then the seriousness of the Job, and how peoples lives were at stake, it was no joke.
Thats why conductors are Qualified, and also subject to random drug tests.
In addition, most of us get along very well on the RR, we work together, eat together, sleep on equipment together, we spend more time with our co-workers then our families. We go to each others weddings and funerals. We are lifetime friends, as proven by the various retirement functions every month.
Sure we joke around and call each other bluebelllys or hoggers, but its all in fun.
Except for occasional bluster, there are no craft wars on the LIRR, there should not be any here either.