Fire safety transporting large amounts of coal by rail

Is spontaneous combustion from dampness really an issue?

I've heard it both ways from otherwise reliable sources.

Thanks.

I haven't heard that one, but dust being ignited by an overheating bearing or sparks from a locomotive seem like hazards that also aren't mentioned much.

Ok lets share stories of burning coal trains ??? bot to many I betya , other than caused by hotboxes etc.

I've not seen any burning coal cars nor heard of any here in Utah. There is an interesting video of the CP placing latex onto of their coal loaded cars however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiV55zohC4

The only hopper fires I ever heard of were caused by heating the car at the unloading site to unfreeze it. Happened a couple of times down at the power plant I use to deliver coal to on CSX.

Dave

Had over twenty years experience with PRB coal trains and never once heard of a car of coal on fire. The coal storage pile at Pawnee Power Plant did catch fire a few times, however, this from spontaneous combustion.

The only spontanious combustion of a railcar I have seen was a loaded trash car. I can't remember the reporting marks, but there is a fairly large fleet of high sided gons, painted black and they have 4 "fire hose ports" installed on the sides. A standard inch and a half Fire hose can be attached directly to the car and water pump in to dose any flames, without the need to open the top of the car. Further reducing the fires air supply.

Spontaneous combustion of coal is really only a problem when coal is stored for extended periods and under certain conditions. Large power plants have to be careful, and it used to be a real problem in coal-fired ships. No self-respecting railroad would allow carload of coal to sit around long enough for anything bad to happen, although it's doubtful that the mass of coal in one car would be sufficient for spontaneous combustion to occur. If you Google "spontaneous combustion in coal piles" you'll find factoids like this one:

"The height of the coal pile is also important. Limit unlayered, uncompacted high grade coal to a height of 15' (10' for low grade coal); maximum height is 26' for layered and packed coal."

I had a coal car catch on fire once. I was working on a powder River coal train, from Creston, Ia. I think that this one was headed south on the K Line. It was the fall, and farmers were burning the brush in their fields. I don't know if it was a spark or spontaneous combustion. A westbound reported it to us. The Burlington, IA FD met us near the station to put it out.

slchub wrote:I've not seen any burning coal cars nor heard of any here in Utah. There is an interesting video of the CP placing latex onto of their coal loaded cars however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiV55zohC4

Fantastic. Is that to prevent fires?

Also, how does it sense where a coal car begins and ends?

Thank you.

Passenger wrote:

slchub wrote:I've not seen any burning coal cars nor heard of any here in Utah. There is an interesting video of the CP placing latex onto of their coal loaded cars however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiV55zohC4

Fantastic. Is that to prevent fires?

Also, how does it sense where a coal car begins and ends?

Thank you.

It looks like there is a light beam across the tracks near the bottom of the video for detecting car length.
They are probably using the AEI tags to decide which cars to coat with latex (and not coat the engines - especially the mid train helpers).

Very cool operation.

ive seen spontaneous combustion in the coal pile at fairfield texas, and in a hopper car inbound as well. it's not a "fire" so to speak, just a smoldering, slow burn, that creates lots of smoke, but no open flame. bnsf had to bring a fire engine in, and a car was set out, and hosed for two days, in an attempt to put out a smoldering fire in the car. the powerplant didnt want to dump the burning coal onto the belts, for fear of a bigger fire, i guess. it seems strange to see a coalpile burning, knowing the coal is damp, and nothing but the coal itself caused the fires. the fire we found in the car wasnt even showing visible smoke. the heat was discoloring the aluminum carbody, and radiating heat off of it. there wasnt any other indication the car was burning, and that car was simply dumped, with the waterjets inside the hopper being run wide open, as that car was dumped. the bnsf burning car, was a visible burn, with large amounts of heavy white smoke pouring from the car. it does seem the longer the coal sits, the more likely an opportunity for a spontaneous burn.

as for the latex sprayed on the coal, thats done for dust abatement. the amount of damage done by coal dust, to the roadbed, is staggering. it wouldnt seem like it, but the dust from the top, and that fine particulate that seeps out of the doors, fouls the ballast, creating the ability to retain moisture, and causes the roadbed to "pump", causing slow orders. the prb mainline was out of commission a couple of years back, for a massive undercutting/ballast cleaning project, to reverse the damages done by coal dust. it created giant mow windows, causing trains to be delayed, or sent in fleets, of trains running as close as possible, one after the other. "gluing" the coal in place, with sprayed on coatings, is seen as a cheaper than having to clean the ballast, across an entire division.

If they can ship coal by ship in amounts of 250 000 ton in one ship, it should not be a science to ship it by rail at 125 ton per car.

Anyone who has played around with it knows that coal is rather difficult to burn in the same way as wood or gasoline. Charcoal is probably the best analogy and even that probably burns easier. Burning coal generates slow, steady heat as opposed to flames. The primary dangers are to adjacent items with a low flashpoint or to the metal in the hopper car weakening from the heat. The Battleship Maine blew up when a fire in a coal bunker set off one of the powder magazines, but I don't see many of today's coal trains suffering from that problem.

i guess heading offtopic , but i would say that dust from the like of flour , wheat , wood products etc would be more of a fire danger than coal . or perhaps coal dust poses a similiar risk if a spark or flame is present .
I know flour mills are considered to be high fire hazard area .
similarily , when i worked in a abbatoir , we needed hot work permits to weld in the freezers . the reason , no moisture in the air made everything remotely burnable highly flammable .