driver or engineer

In a recent Popular Mechanics (I think) a report on the new GE Evolution locomotive stated that the runners are no longer called engineers but drivers. Has anyone heard this as fact or is this the BS of some mechanical engineer who cringes at hearing the person in the right seat called an engineer? When I worked at The Great Train Store in Atlanta, railroad civil or mechanical engineers would come in the store and announce their railroad employment (as would the REAL railroad engineers). I fear that I might have been a little overboard in telling them that inside The Great Train Store they were not real engineers. By the way, despite GE's popularity with the purchasing depts., I never heard a locomotive engineer say he preferred a GE to an EMD.
Jock Ellis

In the US we buy "gas" for our cars, in the UK they buy "petrol". In the US we take the "elevator" to get to the upper floors of a building, in the UK they take the "lift". In the US, the freight vehicles on the highway are "trucks", as are the wheel and axle assemblies on railcars. In the UK the highway version is a "lorry", while the rail version is a "bogie"

Same with the person operating a locomotive. In the US (and Canada), the title is "engineer". In the UK (and Australia, NZ) the title is "driver". In Spanish, the title actually treanslates to "machinist"!

Sounds to me like someone from GE spent too long on the other side of one pond or the other.

I think that the so called professional engineers have a complex because all that I do is pull a throttle. They do real things , like being sure that some bridge does not fall down.
I have a true right to say this. I earned a degree in mechanical engineering before hiring out. I have been asked why I work on the railroad instead of in an office. After much soul searching I decided to follow my uncle's career path into the railroad.
The real point is that anyone who makes an honest living has something to be proud of. No one has a job which is as easy as it looks.

Engineer Spike, you went from being an MechE to an railroad Engineer. That's interesting. Did you do any work as a MechE? I'm a EE and am also thinking of making the switch.

I'm an EE and I worked as an EE, but I also made the switch to Loco Engineer. To be honest, I couldn't take being stuck in an office all day anymore. And by the way, being an EE will help you little in your education as an LE, except, as an EE, you have developed the type of learning/thinking skills that come in handy in your LE study.

Back to the original thread: Germans also call them drivers -- Zugfuehrer, or Lokfuehrer. Zug = train, Lok = loco, Fuehrer = driver. The Greek word translates to engine driver. Good grief!

To me, the name engineer is right on. Loco engineers are NOT drivers, as a train is not driven. The guy/gal up front is the only one who uses the engine, hence engineer is a good name.

And never, never, never call us motormen!

One can argue the other side also: EEs should not be called EEs, because they never work with engines! So there!
:D

Now, since conductors deal with cars, should we call them careers?

[deleted]

Seems to me, no real confusion exists as to how we should refer to those that control the movement of locomotives and trains. We have Civil Engineers, Electrical Engineers, Chemical Engineers, etc. None of whom have the hands on control of anything approaching the movement of power and tonnage that locomotive engineers are required to handle on a daily basis. No offense "Engineer Spike" ( I know your remark wasn't serious) but as you are aware, Locomotive engineers do more than just push or pull a throttle, and I think one should separate the technical differences of running passenger equipment and that of a 200 car, 10 to 14000+ ton freight train while having been on continuous duty eight hours or more. Webster has several definitions regarding "Engineer" but the one I like and which seems most definitive is ("A person who RUNS or supervises an engine or an apparatus").
Probably not until after the 1960's did most railroads develop a classroom approach to employing and training new engineers, prior to that time most engineers were hired off the street and went to work almost immediately without much if any classroom training, they were put to work in training for a very short period of time, perhaps 7 to 14 trips with a regular working Fireman and learned on the job. After one year you had two chances to take an examination, failure to pass or to take the test you were terminated, after two years another examination was required and you passed or were terminated. The fourth year you took a final examination and you had three chances either to take them when required or forfeit two of them and take your chances on the third try, if you failed the third try you were all done, most were nervous wrecks by this time. I happen to be one of those that chose to ignore my first and second try at the final fourth year exam and was employed seven years in 1955 when I took and obviously passed and by this time the examination covered almost 50% steam and 50% diesel.

When one considers the responsibilities of the engineers back prior too, and after 1900, it does seem clear that "Engineer" was a most appropriate title, he was required to know all of the intimate workings of the locomotive, to have the knowledge to take down and repair if possible any of the working parts of the locomotive which meant even the main rods and when necessary to instruct the maintenance people on what to do in the field, after all! it was HIS locomotive and surely in those days he must have been regarded as a remarkably smart individual of his time. So hence, and forever more the title Engineer belongs to him and now her as well. Dave

Use of the term "Engineer" to describe the operator of a locomotive probably comes from the coloquial term for a locomotive--- Engine. Though it has transit conotations, the term "operator" might be the best description, however I have absolutely no problem with continued use of the term "engineer". They definately are not drivers.

Walt:
I'm all a dither that you "have absolutely no problem with continued use of the term engineer". Too bad you wern't around to see what steam engineers did for a living when the name became common to them.

Coloquil term for locomotive? Transit connotations?
Ah knows us old engineers probly ain't too bright since we uns din hafta go to ivy coved schools, but danged if I gonna go look up them thar words.

Dave

Believe me, I have nothing but respect for railroad "engineers", especially those that operated steam locomotives!. If they want to use another term to describe what they do, in today's world, they'll get no argument from me ( not that it really matters what I think) The "transit connotation" simply refers to the fact that bus drivers are often officially described as "operators", and that the term has been also applied to streetcar motormen.----- Come up with a term which is acceptable to those who man the controls of locomotives to describe what they do and I'll be more than happy to use it! :D