Kingston NY : Freight operations

According to my 1955 freight schedule there were 3 trains aday that stopped to drop cars in Kingston, were did these cars go, how much was freight was handled by locals or possibly traveling switchers. I know that the CMB and Wallkill Valley had locals that worked both lines, but three trains aday, were did it go?

The Wallkill Valley wayfreight RV-9 (later RV-2/RV-9) made a round trip 6 days per week to Campbell Hall, with some local traffic (like cattle feed) and a lot of empties to interchange to the New Haven. Sometime he handled more than 50-60 cars to Campbell Hall.

The Catskill Mountain Branch wayfreight (technically a pick-up-and-drop train in NYC terminology) ran to Oneonta Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and returned the next day. Sometimes he had 30-40 cars, mostly cattle feed, for stations west of Arkville. Very little interchange at Oneonta with the D&H - usually a few loads of anthracite for local stations, and an occasional car of house freight or Cadillacs for Oneonta.

The Catskill Mountain Branch Yard Engine worked the former U&D yard, and spent all day, six days per week, serving local industries with all sorts of stuff in 1955. The track to the Colonial Sand and Gravel Co. cement mill hadn't been built yet (1958) but when it started up it took 20-35 cars of bituminous coal per day from the CMB Yard job. The West Shore crews also had a Kingston yard engine that served local industries as well as (I think) two tricks switching in the yard.

There were north end and south end drop trains running on the West Shore main out of Kingston, and the Alsen Switcher out of Kingston was good for 40-60 cars of cement and coal on a good day.

It made a good piece of business for the New York Central, and justified stopping a few trains at Kingston to set out and pick up.

Troll

Thanks for the info answered alot of questions I had

Was there a lot of interchange with the NYO&W at Kingston?

-otto-

Otto -

I don't think there was much interchange with the NYO&W at Kingston. It was all over before I ever went to Kingston on the CMB, but there was not much of an interchange track. It was in the territory served by the CMB Yard Engine (ex-U&D) and I never heard of a "long drag" from the O&W.

I don't know if the U&D/NYC and NYO&W had reciprocal switching at Kingston. It would have been possible, if S. D. Coykendall had felt inclined to grant same to the O&W upon its reaching Kingston while SDK controlled the U&D. Those tariffs had a way of continuing long past the change in ownership of an individual railroad. Any arrangements at Kingston would have been an artifact from the U&D, because that was the only direct connection.

I suspect that the NYC itself probably conducted its largest interchange with the O&W at Utica, with some at Weehawken (not Cornwall), Oneida, and Fulton.

Troll another question about Alsen, did they ever run an extra of just coal to the cement plants there or was it just done by the local. One would assume that 3 plants would consume quite alot of coal.

I didn't keep a close watch on Alsen traffic because I lived in Stamford. I don't know which way the coal moved to Alsen, from Weehawken or Selkirk, but I would suspect that any large blocks of coal might have been set out directly at Alsen by a through train for the Alsen Switcher to spot at the cement plants.

Chief, I hired out on the Penn central in 1970 as a fieman and remember being called for unit train Coal extras off the Jersey city freight list. Most of the time the coal came via Enola, although I do recall a few that came east over the Lehigh Valley. Anyway we would pick up a Lehigh Valley pilot at Bay tower to take us over the LV National Docks branch thru National junction ( CP Nave) on to the River line and drop the train at Weehawken yard or go all the way up to CP-5 and tie it down.I recall most of the trains went to Rosemont ? or Alsen 35 years later this name sticks in my mind. This deal fizzled out after 1972 so I guess most of the coal came south out of Selkirk after this time period.

Also, didn't the NYC Walkill Valley branch take traffic to Maybrook (via back up move from Campbell Hall) for L&HR-DL&W-CNJ RDG-LNE-ERIE-LV- and PRR Bel Del connections?

Henry -

The NYC Wallkill jobs didn't go into Maybrook. They had a small interchange with the Erie at Montgomery, just an occasional car, and they ran on trackage rights over the Erie's Montgomery Branch to Campbell Hall. They set out and picked up to and from the New Haven and L&NE at Campbell Hall, and then returned to Kingston.

NYC did not have a direct interchange with the L&HR anywhere. NYC interchanged with LV, PRR and CNJ in Weehawken and Jersey City. Most of the PRR empties from NYC Lines East went home via Himrods Jct, and the primary Reading interchange was Newberry Jct. The CNJ participated in some Reading - NYC traffic via Weehawken.

Most of the traffic on the Walkill in later years was empties returning home to the New Haven.

Gordon

Even with the connection at Oneonta, would it be fair to say that the CMB was a "dead end" railroad? At first glance, it would seem like a lot of traffic would be exchanged with the D&H... but I guess with the Walkill/LHR route, there would not be much need to hand off any traffic to D&H going south...

-otto-

My Dad was a mechanical engineer for NYC. I remember that he took me on a trip to Kingston roundhouse in either 1956 or 57. As I remember situation, most of locomotives serviced there were for Walkill Valley service.

I also remember visiting my Mom's relatives along the U&D as well as in Oneonta during the '50s. I don't think there was much on the U&D even at that time.

DocJohn
Macon, GA

Otto Vondrak wrote:Even with the connection at Oneonta, would it be fair to say that the CMB was a "dead end" railroad? At first glance, it would seem like a lot of traffic would be exchanged with the D&H... but I guess with the Walkill/LHR route, there would not be much need to hand off any traffic to D&H going south...

-otto-

Actually, Otto, the U&D was proposed to go further west (northwest) of Oneonta and the West Shore branch from Dewitt area to Erieville, Georgetown and Earlville was expected to be connected to it. It was another dream of hooking east and west with PA coal from the D&H going east from Oneonta to NYC and New England points. Another connection was with the Delaware and Northern (Eastern) at Arkville-Margaretville which was to have been part of a trunk from Pittsburgh or Wilkes Barre to Delanson area and then north to Montreal; this was more direct route to pick up PA coal. Capital failed to materialize for the projects, NYC became interested in the Catskill Mt. passenger trade, milk and post office contracts were lucrative. There were super elevated curves, 60mph running in some places, though 50-55 was the norm, and a pusher station at Arkville. It was, like many NYC and PRR branchlines, almost like a railroad unto itself, a completely different world from the main line.