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 #1623421  by Jeff Smith
 
Gothamist: https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-set-to-i ... ing-months

Not a lot of details as to how they will function.
MTA set to install protective platform doors at select subway stations in ‘coming months’

The city will begin constructing protective screen doors at three subway station platforms “in the coming months,” Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesperson Aaron Donovan told Gothamist on Sunday.

The protective barriers are part of a pilot program meant to stop riders from falling — or being pushed — onto the train tracks. The program, which was announced last year, comes in response to several high-profile incidents, including one resulting in the death of Michelle Go, who was shoved onto the Times Square subway tracks last year.
...
The protective platform doors are set to be installed at the Times Square 7 train, the Third Avenue L train and the Sutphin Boulevard-Archer Avenue E train stop. The Platform Screen Door Pilot Installation program is estimated to cost more than $100 million, according to one report.
...
 #1623422  by Jeff Smith
 
https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta- ... intrusions
MTA Announces Multi-Pronged Efforts to Address Track Intrusions

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) today announced a multi-pronged approach to protect passengers from the risks of trespassing on the tracks within subway and commuter rail systems. On December 10, 2021, the Authority launched a Track Trespassing Task Force to study solutions aimed at reducing track intrusions, which have increased throughout the transit system by 20 percent between 2019 and 2021 and resulted in 68 fatalities last year. The task force released its findings to the MTA Board during the Authority’s February meeting and recommended a series of communications, operations, and capital initiatives to enhance customer safety and prevent service disruptions.

The task force analyzed data on intrusions and collisions, established a new tracking method for more detailed information as to the causes and impacts of people entering tracks. It conducted a survey of homelessness in the system and reviewed previous studies, including the Platform Screen Doors feasibility study released last month. A full report on the task force’s findings will be released next month.

"The MTA wants to deal with this problem of track intrusions in all of its complexity,” said MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber. “It's not just the violent assault we saw last month, which was a horrific version of this problem, but also everyday incidents of people retrieving cell phones or trying to cross between platforms. It's a huge risk to safety and the day-to-day operation of the system. We began looking at this issue last fall and have come up with a number of proactive strategies that are moving forward.”

“The Task Force looked comprehensively at the problem of track intrusion and identified practical solutions involving improved customer communications, security and outreach, and innovative technology solutions,” said MTA Construction & Development President and Track Trespass Task Force Lead Jamie Torres-Springer. “Our recommendations will educate riders about the risks of getting on the tracks, prevent intrusions, and reduce injuries and fatalities.”

The initiatives presented to the MTA board will build on the Authority’s ongoing efforts, which include messaging campaigns, in-station Help Points, platform edge warning strips and Laser Intrusion Detection Systems. The MTA announced the following recommendations broken into three key categories: Customer Communications, Operations and Capital Improvements.

Capital

The first major recommendation put forth by the task force is a Platform Screen Doors pilot program at three subway stations: Times Sq , 3 Av and Sutphin Blvd-Archer Av-JFK . The three stations selected represent a mix of different platform configurations that serve a high volume of riders.

In addition to the platform screen doors, the task force recommends piloting new Track Intrusion Detection Systems using advanced technology to alert train operators when people or objects enter tracks. To reduce track intrusions in subway tunnels, the Authority will also look to expand Laser Intrusion Detection Systems to secure critical tunnels.

The Platform Screen Door pilot announcement follows an extensive survey of all 472 subway stations that found significant constraints that would prevent a systemwide roll-out of platform screen doors. The survey showed just 41 of 472 stations—approximately 8 percent of the subway system — can be retrofitted with platform screen doors today, and another 87 would be feasible after train cars have been standardized through 2033.

For the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, the task force recommended securing end of platform areas and railroad’s rights-of-way by adding and repairing fencing and signage. In addition, live video from forward-facing cameras will provide a new way to warn train operators of obstructions.

Operations

The MTA will work with State and City partners to enhance mental health outreach and platform safety. In collaboration with New York State Office of Mental Health Services’ Safety Options Support (SOS) teams, there will be a more targeted approach to clear encampments within the system, helping to prevent people from entering the tracks. Additional NYPD deployments announced as part of the Subway Safety Plan will address circumstances that may lead to riders on the tracks, and the MTA has identified priority stations where intrusions are most prevalent to the NYPD, so officers can be surged to those platforms.

To improve incident response, the MTA is deploying video analytics to better use existing platform CCTV cameras to monitor and intervene in dangerous behavior at stations. Additionally, the MTA will explore installing front-facing cameras on subway trains for real-time monitoring. The Authority is working with the Transit Tech Lab, an initiative of the Partnership for New York City, to conduct a proof-of-concept to assess effectiveness of front-facing cameras on the line with results expected by this spring.

Customer Communications

The MTA will create a layered messaging campaign warning customers of the dangers of being on the tracks and educating riders on the importance of not standing close to the platform edge, taking advantage of video screens across the subway system.

The Authority will partner with local and national experts, including those at NYU’s Department of Psychiatry, to improve suicide prevention messaging in order to create new deterrents to voluntary track intrusions.
 #1623500  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone - Interesting news about testing platform doors - I noticed one of the stations is going to be the E train Sutphin Boulevard/Archer Avenue station in Jamaica - connect point for the LIRR and the JFK AirTrain - which was constructed with platform doors at all of their stations...

The problem is for platform doors to work properly there has to be a subway car fleet that have the same length on their sides between doors - or operate with a single car type. I recall that subway cars are assigned to a route for the specific shop facility access in their maintenance.

If this test works out equipping the entire system with a standard side door fleet along with every station is going to be a multimillion dollar effort by the MTA that is going to take some time...MACTRAXX
 #1623504  by STrRedWolf
 
BumblebeeTransfer wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:37 am
STrRedWolf wrote:Given how many times people throw themselves and/or other people in front of a subway car, it would be worth it.

Not sure about cats, though. When was the last time we had subway kittens stop the trains?
Almost a full ten years ago:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... y/2736251/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spoke too soon: https://nypost.com/2023/03/28/nypd-resc ... yc-subway/

But back to less feline topics...
MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone - Interesting news about testing platform doors - I noticed one of the stations is going to be the E train
Sutphin Boulevard/Archer Avenue station in Jamaica - connect point for the LIRR and the JFK AirTrain - which
was constructed with platform doors at all of their stations...

The problem is for platform doors to work properly there has to be a subway car fleet that have the same
length on their sides between doors - or operate with a single car type. I recall that subway cars are assigned
to a route for the specific shop facility access in their maintenance.

If this test works out equipping the entire system with a standard side door fleet along with every station is
going to be a multimillion dollar effort by the MTA that is going to take some time...MACTRAXX
I have to wonder how the doors would be triggered. There has to be some relay and/or a manual button that the operator can push to open the platform doors before they open the consist doors. I remember that the cars aren't automated as well as WMATA's.
 #1623514  by BumblebeeTransfer
 
Having been delayed on the subway many a time for various issues has me thinking: if there is a malfunction somewhere with the platform doors, do they have a way to open them for passenger egress/ingress if the primary method of opening is malfunctioning? I'd think a manual way of opening them should be possible, but I can also see issues with passengers trying to open them on their own if there isn't some type of key/access control.
 #1623519  by GojiMet86
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:29 pm Given how many times people throw themselves and/or other people in front of a subway car, it would be worth it.

Not sure about cats, though. When was the last time we had subway kittens stop the trains?

Spotted this guy at Prospect Park, on the shuttle track, but at the south end of the track. No chance of the 2-car shuttle running over him. The MTA guys seem to know him, because he's eating deli meat.


ImageIMG_5267 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
 #1623753  by Allan
 
BumblebeeTransfer wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:32 am Having been delayed on the subway many a time for various issues has me thinking: if there is a malfunction somewhere with the platform doors, do they have a way to open them for passenger egress/ingress if the primary method of opening is malfunctioning? I'd think a manual way of opening them should be possible, but I can also see issues with passengers trying to open them on their own if there isn't some type of key/access control.
I agree with your concerns.

I still can remember the incident in the Tokyo subway from 2021. I watched the TV reports showing people climbing over the barriers.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021 ... train.html
 #1637307  by Allan
 
It has been a short while since this topic had any new comments so here we go - - -

The MTA hasn't done much beyond talking when it comes to the protective doors on the stations already mentioned in earlier responses but they have decided to put fences as a pilot program (always a pilot program) in a somewhat obscure station - 191st St on the 1 line.

These non-movable fences are along both platforms and are spaced apart in such a way that there are openings (meaning no fencing) where the doors on the cars will be when the train platforms.

In an article in today' s AMNY Metro paper it is mentioned that platform doors are not feasible in 344 of the 472 stations (that's 73% of the total stations) because the platforms are too narrow to fit the doors and comply with space requirements mandated by the Americans With Disabilities Act. Nowhere is it mentioned that another reason is because of the variations in door positions on equipment in use that it just would not allow for the door positions to line up (example: the stations on the BMT Broadway line, you have the N, Q and W trains using 75 foot cars and the R line using 60 foot cars. Each car may have 4 doors but the doors are in different spots when the trains platform).

In the article it is said the fences/railings are intended to be a barrier to prevent people from careening down to the tracks even though there are openings where the doors of the cars open. MTA Chairman Janno Lieber is quoted as saying "It's still in an experimental phase, and we will be watching carefully to determine if the barriers are effective at deterring track intrusions without interfering with passenger circulation....."

GIVE ME A BREAK - - if someone wants to enter the track area all they have to do is go where the fences aren't or go to either end of the platform where there is a short ladder down to track level. They are probably hoping that people will just stand behind the fence until the train platforms. I'll bet they paid someone BIG $$$ to come up with this fence idea.

Some of the reasoning I always hear and read is"They have these in Tokyo and other county's systems. First of all, this in NYC not some other country. Also how about finding out how many incidents/failures those systems have had since installation. I can point out the 2021 Kyoto incident I mentioned earlier in this thread where the train had an armed nut running thru it and setting off smoke bombs - the train did not platform properly and people were climbing over the barriers to escape. How about getting ALL the information before spending money for something that may or may-not work in a number of situations. Lawsuits in NYC resulting from passenger injuries can add up to a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for platform safety but the way things are being done by the MTA seems to indicate they are just going for whatever comes along and don't spend much time thinking it all through.

I took a couple of photos today at the 191st St station to illustrate what was done.

The first is at the south end of the downtown platform, the 2nd is of the uptown platform (taken from the downtown platform).
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 #1637645  by lensovet
 
Allan wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:56 pm GIVE ME A BREAK - - if someone wants to enter the track area all they have to do is go where the fences aren't or go to either end of the platform where there is a short ladder down to track level. They are probably hoping that people will just stand behind the fence until the train platforms. I'll bet they paid someone BIG $$$ to come up with this fence idea.
I don't think the people getting shoved in front of trains "want" to enter the track area. The fences (more like barriers, your initial description made me think of dinky chain-link fence) reduce the areas of the platform which are unprotected, and in this installation, also prevent people from trying to walk between the edge of the platform and the support columns. Both seem like reasonable measures to improve safety at a fairly limited cost.
Also how about finding out how many incidents/failures those systems have had since installation. I can point out the 2021 Kyoto incident I mentioned earlier in this thread.
You're the one claiming that this is a problem, so it seems like the onus is on you to prove that it is indeed a problem. If all you can point to is one incident in one city in how many decades? That's not particularly convincing. AirTrain JFK and EWR use platform doors. When was the last time either of those services were disrupted due to issues with them? Or sued due to injuries (really?)?
 #1637672  by Allan
 
lensovet wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2024 10:30 pm
Allan wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:56 pm GIVE ME A BREAK - - if someone wants to enter the track area all they have to do is go where the fences aren't or go to either end of the platform where there is a short ladder down to track level. They are probably hoping that people will just stand behind the fence until the train platforms. I'll bet they paid someone BIG $$$ to come up with this fence idea.
I don't think the people getting shoved in front of trains "want" to enter the track area. The fences (more like barriers, your initial description made me think of dinky chain-link fence) reduce the areas of the platform which are unprotected, and in this installation, also prevent people from trying to walk between the edge of the platform and the support columns. Both seem like reasonable measures to improve safety at a fairly limited cost.
Also how about finding out how many incidents/failures those systems have had since installation. I can point out the 2021 Kyoto incident I mentioned earlier in this thread.
You're the one claiming that this is a problem, so it seems like the onus is on you to prove that it is indeed a problem. If all you can point to is one incident in one city in how many decades? That's not particularly convincing. AirTrain JFK and EWR use platform doors. When was the last time either of those services were disrupted due to issues with them? Or sued due to injuries (really?)?

Paul, I am somewhat older than you are (72) and have been riding the NYC subway for a LONG time (and a railfan since my mid-teens).

I was at the 191st St station (I took the pictures that I posted) and it is very easy to walk along the tactile strip on the other side of the fences (there is at least 1 foot or so from the fence to the platform edge). There is nothing to prevent anyone from going past the fence into the open area where the doors are situated when the train platforms. There is also absolutely nothing to prevent someone from standing in the open area on the platform next to the fence.

The incident in Kyoto was the only one that made the international news - I am sure there are others that don't make the news.

As far as the AirTrains are concerned you are talking about trains with 2 cars in the consist and 2 sets of doors in each car. The NYC Subway has 10 cars and 3 sets of doors in each car (I am only talking about trains on 1 line that stop at the 191st St station). There are many more passengers getting on and off the subway train at one time so there is no comparison between the systems. As for lawsuits - the PA is always tight-lipped about any problems regarding their services so there is no way to know.

Google "Subway fences Clark St" and you will see photos/video of the ones just installed at the Clark St station on the 2 and 3 line. You can easily see how anyone can just walk past the fence and then along the tactile strip near the edge of the platform. I do intend to go to that station soon because I want to see how the fences were placed since there are 2 types of car equipment used for train that stop at that station - R62 where the car doors in each car are spaced evenly on both side of the car (and are parallel to the doors on the opposite side of the car), and the R142 where the doors in the A car are placed parallel like the R62 but in the B cars are offset from the doors on the other side of the car so they are not in the exact same position on the platform.
 #1637712  by lensovet
 
Obviously people "can" do anything, like jump onto the tracks. The question is whether something like this will reduce the number of unfortunate accidents and whether it provides people who don't want to end up on the tracks with more protections. Seems like it does – if someone waiting wants to do so close to the edge of the platform, as opposed to against the wall (where it would be safest strictly speaking), it sounds like they can stand against one of these barriers, still see the train when it's coming, and be better protected from being shoved on the tracks as the train approaches (as they can stand against the barrier right until the point the train stops).

i'm not sure which air train has 2 cars with 2 sets of doors in each. At JFK, it's usually 3 and can be as long as 4. The daily ridership was 56k in 2019. Most people on the subway also aren't lugging giant suitcases with them. The Newark AirTrain is 6 cars with 1 door each, which actually makes boarding and deboarding a nightmare. The idea that doors on an airport people mover are somehow less likely to cause issues is straight up amusing to me. The Soviet Union has operated subways with doors since the early 60s. The Japanese have been doing it on commuter rail since the 70s. This isn't some newfangled technology, but if this is the reaction inside the agency, I guess we can guess why the NYCS is probably the least-automated subway system in the world.

I'm not sure why age needs to be brought into this discussion at all.
 #1637716  by lensovet
 
Btw I read some more about your 2021 incident. There was no "malfunction" of the system, what happened was that an emergency happened onboard the train, the train arrived at the station but was misaligned. The railway's operating procedure did not allow for opening either the train or station doors in such a situation, even in case of an emergency. Before the train could fix its position, someone pulled the emergency door release. At that point, people started climbing out over the barrier, including stepping on top of the platform doors. By then, obviously, it was no longer safe to try to open either the train or platform doors.

As an operational failure rather than a technical one, the policy has since been changed to allow train operators to open doors on both the train and the platform in emergency situations even if they are not aligned properly.