Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:49 am

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:21 am There are reports that the "Night Owl" is returning on July 11 but it will not have a baggage or sleeper in the consist. Part of the problem is that 65/67 will be coming north from Newport News and 66 is coming north from Roanoke. Looks like a Sleeper would have to be added/removed in D.C. if they wanted to reestablish the sleeper service. Loss of baggage is a real blow to anyone traveling on a LD from north of NYC which was the only checked baggage train.

*SNIP* They can't service it in Newport News because the station's on a main line. They can't service it in Norfolk because they're getting three trains a day and there's no parking anywhere for it to sit out of the way. All the staff can do is clean out the main cabins, get some basic checks in for the next run, and go. It'll have to be serviced fully in NYP or BOS.

Actually I believe there's a service facility in Norfolk here: https://goo.gl/maps/L7k4SnQkgN5pM3UFA

Service Suspension: https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/ ... 866699.php

Amtrak is suspending three of its Northeast Regional trains with service between New York and Boston as of April 4.

The passenger railroad company announced on Twitter that regional rains 65, 66 and 67 would be suspended between New York and Boston until further notice due to infrastructure improvement work happening on the Northeast Corridor north of New York. All three of the trains are a part of the Northeast Regional overnight service. Now, trains will start and stop in New York, only servicing stops south of Penn Station.

According to Amtrak, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's work on the Penn Station Access Project requires the suspension of these trains, as the project requires taking one track out of service between New York City and New Rochelle. The project will add four Metro-North stations in the Bronx and allow Metro-North trains to travel into Penn Station.
...

I need to point out that this factoid that someone keeps trying to use to minimize Boston's role in Amtrak and the country is absolutely wrong:
>I'm sorry Mr. Trainguy, but the collective "you" with your "anchor" city of 689K population, have "done quite well" by Amtrak.

The population of the city of Boston isn't a meaningful figure, because towns were already established in the 1600's that couldn't be annexed. It's like drawing a line around Chicago's Loop, Lincoln Park, the South Loop and Bridgeport and proclaiming that "Chicago's tiny population of 400,000 doesn't merit the train service it gets."

Metro Boston has 5 million people, the 10th largest metro area in the country. People use rail there in large numbers. Having significant service there absolutely fits a rational business plan for Amtrak.

Thank you for correcting that foolishness

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:09 am Service Suspension: https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/ ... 866699.php

Yeah, they need to make time to work on the Hellgate bridge. Good long period w/o interruptions. Looks like they it'll be between 9:30p and 6a, so a good 8-9 hours work time.

Yes, thank you for pointing out that the effective population of greater Boston is a lot more than the population of the city of Boston. Even if we only include Brookline, Cambridge, Somerville, Quincy, Medford, Everett, Chelsea, Milton--the neighboring cities and towns that are at least partly part of the urban core, not even suburbs--we're looking at a lot more than 650,000. And the electrification etc also serves the Providence area and various other busy stations to New Haven. And Boston itself is a transit-heavy college city and provides loads and loads of passengers for the trains.

Through cars on the Lakeshore were restored once (in the late 90s) because the state of Mass put up money for a mail facility in Springfield (soon obsolete, but it was the mail and express days). Political pressure and doubtful utility are fair there; cross-platform transfer at Albany was fine.

Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:41 pm Through cars on the Lakeshore were restored once (in the late 90s) because the state of Mass put up money for a mail facility in Springfield (soon obsolete, but it was the mail and express days). Political pressure and doubtful utility are fair there; cross-platform transfer at Albany was fine.

Thank you Prof. Martens, for concurring with my point that the 448-449 BOS-CHI through cars was a political move and little else. After all, who else but the unwary would ride that Sleeper having to "listen to the music" all night long.

Now to those here who have interpreted my remarks wondering why Boston got Acela and electrification as some kind of waste, "the System" is of course enhanced for having such rather than having NHV-BOS simply being some "important connection" such as NHV-SPF or NYP-ALB. I'm just saying that without disproportionate political pull the Boston region has, it likely would not be.

My first exposure to the region's political pull on passenger rail occurred during '56 when George (Alpert) just overnight shut down the Old Colony.

I was in Scituate on a boat serving as a Cadet in the Fairfield Navy and there were people with us who "just had to get back to New York". It certainly was a tense moment for all anyone near them confined to a 36ft boat.

But Senator JFK came to the rescue, and the OCRR was running a day later.

Two of the top 10 Amtrak stations in the country in terms of ridership are in the city of Boston and this guy continues to act like the only reason they get service is because of politics. Ok.

I'm just saying that without disproportionate political pull the Boston region has, it likely would not be.

With all due respect, the nature of Amtrak funding makes any large capital expenditure a political choice. Regardless, looking at the numbers, it's pretty clear that electrification to Boston made sense. According to the 1998 EIR for the electrification project, Boston and Providence accounted for about 1.4M of the 11.1M (12.7%) annual NEC ridership (1.1M for Boston stations and 300K for Providence). In 2019, Boston and Providence accounted for 3.5M of the 18.8M NEC trips (18.6%).

Gentlemen please, I have never stated, nor will I, that electrification and the Acela service resulting therefrom, is some kind of rolling pork barrel. The lot of rail passenger service that counts, operator notwithstanding, is better for such.

Even if "I'm out that way" once or twice a year, it's never too much East of Greenwich. But I'll accept publicly circulated reports, that ridership on the East End (NYNH&H), while not as strong as on the West (PRR) is nevertheless strong.

Now so far as political pull goes, Chicago has certainly benefitted from such regarding mass transit. You can be sure that the CTA's Orange to MDW (largely and wisely using existing railroad ROW's) and the Blue to ORD (using that of an existing expressway) are here because of the pull US Rep. Rostenkowski was able to exert.

The reason for no night owl sleepers is what was indicated in regards to the new circulation of the equipment. The trainsets used for the night owl now make a run between Boston, Newport News and Roanoke and are the equipment for two other daytime Virginia regionals that are part of that run and operate the following path - the equipment no longer just makes a back and forth run as the night time train: south from Boston (temporarily New York) to Newport News as the southern overnight train, turns as a daytime regional back up to New York, turns in New York down to Roanoke as a day regional, and then turns back up to Boston as the northbound overnight train where the process starts over again. So one would have to either equip all the consists that make that multi day run with the sleeper or they’d have to set it out at Washington. The suspension of service for the hell gate project probably explains why they haven’t yet brought it back just Boston - Washington. No point if it’s terminating in New York.

At one time there was a sleeper from Washington that terminated at NYP. It was called The New York Executive and departed DC at 10:30 PM on a Boston bound train and a sleeper was dropped off at NYP in the middle of the night. Passengers could occupy the sleeper until 8:00 AM. I took it once, really enjoyed the trip, and slept soundly while enroute and in the bowels of NYP. I awoke refreshed and ready for a meeting upstairs at The Hotel Pennsylvania. A Wall Street Journal reporter wrote a front-page article for the paper recounting his experience taking the train from DC to NYP.

BAR
Williamsburg, VA

Let's please (PLEASE!) move beyond the political pull that MA (allegedly) has. That's a separate argument, mostly concerns the B-LSL, and has nothing to do with the Night Owl. Future posts will be summarily deleted. Keep it to the Night Owl. PLEASE!

BAR wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:09 am At one time there was a sleeper from Washington that terminated at NYP. It was called The New York Executive and departed DC at 10:30 PM on a Boston bound train and a sleeper was dropped off at NYP in the middle of the night. Passengers could occupy the sleeper until 8:00 AM. I took it once, really enjoyed the trip, and slept soundly while enroute and in the bowels of NYP. I awoke refreshed and ready for a meeting upstairs at The Hotel Pennsylvania. A Wall Street Journal reporter wrote a front-page article for the paper recounting his experience taking the train from DC to NYP.

Sadly not able to be done with how things have grown since then, and no longer able to be done with the ICTs.

"IF" Hell gate is going to have off and on shutdowns at night for the next 5 years then some accommodation needs to be found to reinstate the night owl. On another site someone proposed reinstating the wye and Spuyten Duvalle. Routing trains New Rochelle - SPY - West side line to NYP and reverse. Although highly improbable this connection has other potential benefits in case there is ever a problem on any of the rail lines inbound from the north.

IMO shutting down night service to / from BOS is another slap in face to Boston and surroundings all the way to Maine.

EDIT: There are other possible complications as NY City commuters come from many directions. LIRR as we know is having difficulties phasing in GCT. LIRR has to get a handle of how their loads between NYP & GCT settle. Then Amtrak starts the process of closing East river tunnel #1 for Sandy rehabilitation. The other 3 following in succession. If for some unforeseen reason Amtrak would be limited into NYP from the north by Hell Gate the alternative going by SPY could be important.