Old video of NJT train Boonton Line and the DB draw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJunvtlrs6U

U34CH Cab Ride on NJ Transit's Green Wood Lake/Boonton Lines Hoboken To Netcong - December 28, 1990

I just came across this video on YouTube. It's interesting because I've never crossed the DB Draw and now it's out of service forever.

Note that the DB bridge keeper's has his dog tied up next to the track. The bridge was decommissioned in the open position back in 2002. Sometime around 2005 I paddled over and climbed up to the shack that controlled the bridge. The door was broken in the the interior was severely vandalized. It was pretty clear that the bridge would never be used again. Now the plan is to covert the ROW to a rail trail. I don't think the trail plans include reactivating the bridge.

Not sure what they are gonna do with the bridge - ending a rail trail/bike path in the middle of the Meadowlands like that is going to be weird as hell.

Thx for posting the video. Walter Berko (i think thats his name) made a lot of head end ride videos in the NYC metro area, in the 1980's/90s.

Nice ROW Arlington and Montclair...too bad it all toast now. You can see that its a constant uphill climb from east of Arlington to Great Notch. Road freight using this route would occasionally get a push up the hill from croxton yard to Great notch. There was no assigned helper crew...they would either use a yard crew, or most often...a freight would stall on the hill,,,and theyd have whoever was in the area help push the train over the hill. They even had a passenger train that was trailing a freight, help with the push at least once. Of ciurse, that was in the EL days, when just getting the job done was the highest priority.

As for the trail.....its supposed to go along the old NY&GL ROW down thru the archways all the way to Jersey City. I expect that the DB draw will be removed, and a high fixed bridge (for foot and bicycle traffic) will be built.
I think arlington draw is high enough abv the passaic river, that they will be able to use it, fixed in the closed position.
The poor condition of the arlington draw, was supposedly one of the reasons they decided to abandon Montclair to West End via the Greenwood Lake. DB was supposedly not in as bad a condition.

I rode a U34CH from HOB to Dover via the Greenwood lake, years ago....just took some stills tho...
Wish I had taken a few more cab rides around the EL NYD, but just too busy working back then...

No new bridge at DB. The map I have seen for the proposed trail is that at the west end of DB the trail turns south and follows the west bank of the Hackensack River in a southerly direction, passing under the Amtrak/NEC bridge, to Route 7, and thence east along Route 7 over the new Wittpenn vehicle bridge sidewalk into Jersey City. In Jersey City the trail would split north to Secaucus and east via the Bergen Arches to the Hudson River. A new trail fixed bridge would have to be in the vicinity of 3,500 feet long to meet the river clearance and ADA requirements.

pdtrains wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:20 am Nice ROW Arlington and Montclair...too bad it all toast now. You can see that its a constant uphill climb from east of Arlington to Great Notch. Road freight using this route would occasionally get a push up the hill from croxton yard to Great notch. There was no assigned helper crew...they would either use a yard crew, or most often...a freight would stall on the hill,,,and theyd have whoever was in the area help push the train over the hill. They even had a passenger train that was trailing a freight, help with the push at least once. Of ciurse, that was in the EL days, when just getting the job done was the highest priority.

That makes sense as to why NS didn't seem to care when it was abandoned.

pdtrains wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:20 am As for the trail.....its supposed to go along the old NY&GL ROW down thru the archways all the way to Jersey City. I expect that the DB draw will be removed, and a high fixed bridge (for foot and bicycle traffic) will be built.
I think arlington draw is high enough abv the passaic river, that they will be able to use it, fixed in the closed position.
The poor condition of the arlington draw, was supposedly one of the reasons they decided to abandon Montclair to West End via the Greenwood Lake. DB was supposedly not in as bad a condition.

And it was cheaper to do the connection that exists now instead of fix/replace the bridge(s)? Interesting.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:05 am No new bridge at DB. The map I have seen for the proposed trail is that at the west end of DB the trail turns south and follows the west bank of the Hackensack River in a southerly direction, passing under the Amtrak/NEC bridge, to Route 7, and thence east along Route 7 over the new Wittpenn vehicle bridge sidewalk into Jersey City. In Jersey City the trail would split north to Secaucus and east via the Bergen Arches to the Hudson River. A new trail fixed bridge would have to be in the vicinity of 3,500 feet long to meet the river clearance and ADA requirements.

How often do boats come through where DB draw is? And how big are they usually? Honestly, I don't see the trail getting much use in that spot anyway, would be a waste to build a bridge with all the bells and whistles it needs. I am also pretty sure that once you get over DB draw, the tracks are active again, so not suitable for a bike path.

My recollection is that the new Wittpenn Bridge has a 70 foot vertical clearance for marine traffic so a trail bridge would have to be at least that high above water level.

Is there a solely pedestrian bridge in the country that has a clearance like that? No way many people would feel comfortable crossing over it as well, I'd imagine when it's windy out, it would be a nightmare.

I have a question about the signals on that line. Many of the automatic signals are the familiar Erie 3-aspect signals with the lights clustered in a triangle, but there are also some with the lights arranged vertically, and both the top and bottom appear to be illuminated; it's hard to tell what color (as it often is on videos) but it looks as though both might be green, which doesn't exist in NORAC. Based on the period when the footage was shot, does anybody know what's involved?

Also, at Netcong, did the Sussex Branch diverge just east of the station, with the station in the V between the branch and the main?

Some , but not all the signals between Hoboken terminal at Bergen Jct are old lackawanna signals. Rather than me try to explain Lackawanna Signalling, In sure there is a web site that explains it. The Aspects fit into Norac, but the signal heads are different.

Also...If youre talking about ex-erie signals, the Erie used type G (the lights in a traingle) and the 3 lights vertical signals.
There is no Green over Green on the EL routes AFAIK

And thx for the info on the trail route. When I heard about it, it was just mentioned that the trail will come down the Greenwood lake and go thru the archways...so i just kinda assumed that the trail would follow the NY&GL down thru the archways to Jersey City.

Oh...and if you;re looking for a heavy duty emphastructure footbridge, Googe "The High Bridge' in New York City.

If u just want to see a long, high footbridge, see "poughkeepsie bridge" in New York state...

pdtrains wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:16 am Oh...and if you;re looking for a heavy duty emphastructure footbridge, Googe "The High Bridge' in New York City.

If u just want to see a long, high footbridge, see "poughkeepsie bridge" in New York state...

Those were all bridges/structures that were originally used for purposes that did not include pedestrians - they were converted to pedestrian bridges after some time.

I meant does anyone know of a solely pedestrian bridge in the country that would have a rather steep approach to reach a 70+ foot clearance below? And what kind of boats pass through DB draw anyway? I've passed by that spot tons of times and never saw a boat go through.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:56 pm

pdtrains wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:16 am Oh...and if you;re looking for a heavy duty emphastructure footbridge, Googe "The High Bridge' in New York City.

If u just want to see a long, high footbridge, see "poughkeepsie bridge" in New York state...

Those were all bridges/structures that were originally used for purposes that did not include pedestrians - they were converted to pedestrian bridges after some time.

I meant does anyone know of a solely pedestrian bridge in the country that would have a rather steep approach to reach a 70+ foot clearance below? And what kind of boats pass through DB draw anyway? I've passed by that spot tons of times and never saw a boat go through.

"A rather steep approach" for new construction of a pedestrian bridge is prohibited by federal law. The ADA specifies a maximum slope as well as level resting areas at periodic intervals.

pdtrains wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:56 pm Some , but not all the signals between Hoboken terminal at Bergen Jct are old lackawanna signals. Rather than me try to explain Lackawanna Signalling, In sure there is a web site that explains it. The Aspects fit into Norac, but the signal heads are different.

Also...If youre talking about ex-erie signals, the Erie used type G (the lights in a traingle) and the 3 lights vertical signals.
There is no Green over Green on the EL routes AFAIK

The signals I noticed were all east of Mountain View. It looked like the top light was lighted and seemed to be green, which would be right; maybe the bottom one was dark and just looked the same. Just wanted to be sure the Erie hadn't added something I didn't know about.