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  • For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.
For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.

Moderator: Jeff Smith

 #1604996  by STrRedWolf
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:29 am Had to give this a bit of a cooling off for myself lost a family friend to a RCO accident. The magic box failed him. The safety cut out failed while he was leaning in to adjust the knuckle and was coupled up in between the cars. He was able to say goodbye to his wife after they found him. He pleaded with with the EMTs to let his kids down to see him but all involved felt it was better for them to stay further away. Once they pulled the pins to uncouple the cars he died instantly. Locomotive engineer in the cab and he is still alive and well today.

They are not safe not only for the above reason. Equipment is constantly being sideswiped, running through misaligned switches, over derails and out the ends of stub tracks. This all cost money and jobs. Operators have pressure on them to produce X amount of cars switched per shift. They have constant pressure on them to work quickly and safely but yet "white hats" will hide in bushes, new cars locomotive cabs ect to watch to see how you go about your day. If they do not like what they see your fired.
This... only serves to further constrict the limits of one person operation in my eye. It is still case-by-case but there's a lot of devilish details needed. In almost all cases, it's still going to be 2+ person operation.

Note I said 2+. I swear if you got inline power, you need someone in that engine because your train is too damn long.
 #1605033  by eolesen
 
Nobody staffs a DPU. When they were used, helpers were staffed but only because they were temporary and not added in the yard.

Serious accidents will happen as long as people are able to place themselves in a pinch point. The number of crew can't prevent that. RCOs are another issue altogether... you can't blue flag something incapable of seeing the blue flag.

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 #1605045  by Railjunkie
 
DPUs were originally used mostly by railroads in mountains to help with HP for climbing and keeping up train line air for braking. It allowed them to get rid of manned helpers. or to saved money cause you didnt have to pay a crew to work the hill all day. Today's railroads now use them to run longer trains so they can combine two trains into one. There is no reason for a company like CSX to run DPUs on the Mohawk when legacy railroads like the NYCRR PC and CR never used such. Cheaper to run a 14000ft train then two 7000ft trains.

Not good for the crafts but excellent for the shareholders.

Now lets move on to our vast operating knowledge, blue flag rules first and foremost NOT USED BY OPERATING CRAFTS. It is a mechanical form of protection.
Second rule of blue flag who ever craft puts it there has to remove it.
Third rule of blue flag T&E CAN NOT TOUCH IT. IF IT IS DISPLAYED WE CAN NOT GO BY IT. IF IT IS ON A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT.

Been an engineer for 19yrs made hundreds of cuts and couples and there are three basic steps I have to take BEFORE my conductor goes in between equipment.
1. Center the reverser
2. Full Service brake application set the independent parking/hand brake.
3. Knock down the generator field switch.
There is a fourth if we are dealing with a live passenger train that the freight guys likely would never have to deal with and that is shutting and isolating down the HEP.
When switching cars or making up trains I do not move until to do so either via radio or hand signal. I do not touch the controls until told to move, very much like a navy pilot. If there is any confusion on what is going on the move is stopped. The magic box doesn't know when you are in trouble.
Again if there was someone in the cab doing those exact steps some deaths and injuries could have been prevented.
Last edited by Railjunkie on Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1605049  by BandA
 
Note that the presidential emergency board #250 in its recommendation completely punts on safety or crew issues. They are for local negotiation! So rules and stuff will get kicked down the road or addressed in binding arbitration on the side.
 #1605084  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:21 pm Third rule of blue flag T&E CAN NOT TOUCH IT. IF IT IS DISPLAYED WE CAN NOT GO BY IT. IF IT IS ON A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT.
From Imlauer Pitter Hotel Salzburg--

Guten Morgan, Herr Junkie,

While of course I do not know the applicable Rules for either DB or OBB, somewhere I have a CCOR that I purloined ("Squealer", Chief Clerk, never knew I had it) when I "pulled the pin"), I absolutely cringe when I see anyone climbing between the Engine and the cars to uncouple the link and pin. Here in Salzburg, two seven car RailJet sets coming from Vienna, are split with one going to Innsbruck or further West and the other going to Munich (no wonder during The War, Salzburg was so strategic and was bombed - sometimes."uh, not so accurately"). I have never noted any kind of warning signal or device active when such is being done.

But somehow. I don't think the OBB is advertising their safety record - especially to us foreigners with railroad in their CV.
 #1605098  by Railjunkie
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:42 am
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:21 pm Third rule of blue flag T&E CAN NOT TOUCH IT. IF IT IS DISPLAYED WE CAN NOT GO BY IT. IF IT IS ON A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT.
From Imlauer Pitter Hotel Salzburg--

Guten Morgan, Herr Junkie,

While of course I do not know the applicable Rules for either DB or OBB, somewhere I have a CCOR that I purloined ("Squealer", Chief Clerk, never knew I had it) when I "pulled the pin"), I absolutely cringe when I see anyone climbing between the Engine and the cars to uncouple the link and pin. Here in Salzburg, two seven car RailJet sets coming from Vienna, are split with one going to Innsbruck or further West and the other going to Munich (no wonder during The War, Salzburg was so strategic and was bombed - sometimes."uh, not so accurately"). I have never noted any kind of warning signal or device active when such is being done.

But somehow. I don't think the OBB is advertising their safety record - especially to us foreigners with railroad in their CV.
Something like this??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZMkr-Gl_c
 #1605105  by Railjunkie
 
eolesen wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:36 pm The local grocery store kid isn't going to have a pension or healthcare benefits anywhere close to what the railroads receive. Nor are they going to have the amount of paid time off.

You can say that the PEBs offer was a joke, but historically they have always split the difference down the middle. If you allow yourself to get into a PEB, that's the risk you take by not negotiating before that.

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While our retirement is far better than Social Security we also contribute above and beyond the normal taxed percentages of Social Security. The taxes are tier 1 and tier 2 and all railroaders that pay into the railroad retirement system pay into these. Checking a old BA6 I had contributed $69000 into the system so far in my career. Far more than I would have to social security. IF you are lucky enough to have a job that pays well enough to meet the requirements of said taxes at some point during the year you get to keep a little extra in your pocket.
The issue you need to make the following to pay off.
Tier 1 $147000
Tier 2 $109200
These taxes along with everything else go up every year. Back in the day to pay off your tier 2 was fairly easy not so much any more. Tier 1 better have some really good seniority and be willing to work a lot. Like no social life a lot.

Time off, you need to start your 24th to get to 5 weeks vacation. Of which you can break 2 to 3 down into single days depending on your agreement. But what if the carrier doesn't allow you to use the two to three weeks for single days for say your kids birthday a wedding a funeral take your pick.
Then again if its so great then why are folks with 20+ plus years leaving???

Now we go onto to the really fun parts of railroading attendance policies:
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/clas ... ce-policy/
https://ble-t.com/resc/pdf_tey_attendance_072821.pdf

Those are just two, they are all pretty much points based you loose points faster than you can get them back. Out with your wife checked the system one train showing with 15 people in front of you got nothing to worry about, right?? Take a sip of that adult beverage ring goes the cell its the railroad we have train XYZ at 1930H. You dont take the call cause you have had a drink. Miss call 10 points of your 30. Take some time a do a little research on the web. Plenty of ex railroaders without an axe to grind who are sharing their experiences for folks who want to start a career on the rails.

Best one Ive heard yet and this came directly from a local chair. Those inward facing cameras that are or were going to be used for safety and in case of investigation only. SURE. Just watched a video last night how railroads are now using the cameras to snoop on crews while they are stopped. To the point of pulling people out of service for a texts they sent. Guess they can use their phones when they are stopped and not preforming duty of any kind.

So once again eolesen I say to your kid at your local grocery store get treated better.
 #1605122  by eolesen
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:21 pm Now lets move on to our vast operating knowledge, blue flag rules first and foremost NOT USED BY OPERATING CRAFTS. It is a mechanical form of protection.
Second rule of blue flag who ever craft puts it there has to remove it.
Third rule of blue flag T&E CAN NOT TOUCH IT. IF IT IS DISPLAYED WE CAN NOT GO BY IT. IF IT IS ON A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT.
Is that universal or just your rulebook?... Play semantics all you want, but bottom line is that the flag or light indicates people working on/under/between cars.

UPRR yard crews blue flag the Metra locomotives daily at Olgilvie when they're working between cars on the HEP cables or air hoses after running units to/from the fuel tracks or M19A... It's literally hung off the engineer's sliding window track. I've also seen locomotives tied up for the night or weekend blue flagged whenever they're plugged into the ground power.
 #1605126  by Railjunkie
 
Exactly ITS A MECHANICAL CRAFT FORM OF PROTECTION. Amtrak does the same types of things at their maintenance facilities. As an engineer I can not just go and throw a flag or light off the equipment and move it around because it may be in my way, neither can another craft inside the umbrella of the mechanical department pull the flag or light. The flags or lights are there for a reason, once they are flagged T&E can not touch them period.
When your switching cars in a yard your not blue flagging anything cause we cant. Its all done with verbal communication things like 3 step protection, red zone air time, set and centered. All mean the same things brakes on reverser centered and gen field switch down or some semblance there of.
 #1605243  by ExCon90
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:42 am
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:21 pm Third rule of blue flag T&E CAN NOT TOUCH IT. IF IT IS DISPLAYED WE CAN NOT GO BY IT. IF IT IS ON A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT.
From Imlauer Pitter Hotel Salzburg--

Guten Morgan, Herr Junkie,

While of course I do not know the applicable Rules for either DB or OBB, somewhere I have a CCOR that I purloined ("Squealer", Chief Clerk, never knew I had it) when I "pulled the pin"), I absolutely cringe when I see anyone climbing between the Engine and the cars to uncouple the link and pin. Here in Salzburg, two seven car RailJet sets coming from Vienna, are split with one going to Innsbruck or further West and the other going to Munich (no wonder during The War, Salzburg was so strategic and was bombed - sometimes."uh, not so accurately"). I have never noted any kind of warning signal or device active when such is being done.

But somehow. I don't think the OBB is advertising their safety record - especially to us foreigners with railroad in their CV.
Actually, at a proper coupling speed, the employee is completely protected by the buffers of the two cars, which prevent the cars from getting any closer together than the buffers permit (always providing the stationary portion of the train is securely braked!). Somewhat more unsettling is the common practice of stepping on railheads (instead of over them) while wearing sandals and socks in warm weather -- unless they have safety socks over there.
 #1605453  by AceMacSD
 
Here in the Northeast, I don't see this strike having the kind of momentum that most are saying it will. If a strike were to happen, there would still be the superheroes who want to save the railroad and come in to work. Or you will have the Billy's who are too scared to strike claiming their kids or some other financial hardship. Guys around here are living beyond their means and can't afford to not get a paycheck. Too many people in this industry will cross the picket lines.
 #1605480  by eolesen
 
Yeah, crossing a picket line is essentially a career ending move. You're branded forever. People at United still keep a list of who crossed lines in 1985, even though they're almost all retired.

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