Amtrak Profit Center- Auto Train

Does Amtrak reinvest the operating surplus revenue of Auto Train back into AT? I would hope that they would so that this service would be a top-of-the-line type service that results in a steady money maker.

Amtrak reinvest? Now that's funny.....

If the Auto Train is earning a profit, then they should be trying to figure out a way to increase capacity if it is running full and if that is even possible due to train length. If it is profitable & not full then they should reduce ticket prices. Should be reinvesting and if it continues to be profitable, increase amenities.

According to their results, Amtrak "recovery" is 72%. I assume that is ticket price to expenses.

They mention big increases in insurance costs and in liability claims. What is going on with that??

I think Amtrak profitability on the Auto Train has been mainly the following from my observation:

- emphasizing sleeper capacity over coach. They ran it with 9 sleepers in both directions in the peak season this year. two deluxe SL2 sleepers which are captive to the AT in each direction along with 7 normal SL sleepers. For the off season they are running with 5 normal SL sleepers in each direction. I think the eventual goal is to run it with 10 sleepers - I believe that was a goal this FY for peak but staffing couldn’t support it.

- coach dining was removed a couple years back but this was accompanied by lower fares for coach.

- adjusting up vehicle fares and priority offload fees to see what the market can support.

So they are offering an affordable coach product and plenty of sleeper capacity. If they can command higher fares from the sleepers they should. The goal for the auto train should be revenue positive as the unique market for this route should be able to deliver a profit if operated properly.

I will say, since there's a constraint on the length of the Auto Train I wonder if there's any way they could run two separate sections in close timing.

In my earier years drove NJ - FL nonstop (no pedros). Middle years (with family) did AT and totally enjoyed it several times. Adding a AT second consist would most likely create more corporate income. Just makes sense.

I don't think Amtrak has the station capacity at Lorton or Sanford to handle a second section.

What portion of the time does the Auto Train run full?

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:46 pm What portion of the time does the Auto Train run full?

Are you talking "time of year" or "section of route"? Because the latter is invalid -- the Auto Train is a "shotgun express", end to end non-stop.

For "time of year" I would imagine the summer months are full, and around some holidays as well.

As I remember, the Cardinal once ran with Superliners, so Superliners can fit in the Capital Street tunnel.

That means if Amtrak rebuilds the Baltimore tunnels to Superliner clearance, are there any other height restrictions to prevent a Newark NJ AutoTrain? Platforms wouldn't be an issue since it would be using it's own dedicated station. There is a ton of land near Marion Reach and South Kearny yard that could be used for parking.

There is space between the ROW and I-95 to expand the Lorton facility as well if they wanted to run a second train. I think the key would be to figure out how to schedule them so there is the least possible chance that delayed trains would need to stage on the mainline, but perhaps they could be held at one of the yard tracks in Acca if that ever happened.

I don't think there is enough space to expand Lorton--when they can't unload a single northbound train before most passengers for the southbound train have arrived, the current station and it's parking lot is packed. They would need to effectively double the size of the station waiting area and the automobile loading/unloading area. (This summer I rode an Auto Train south where the northbound Auto Train arrived at about our scheduled departure time. They managed to turn the whole train in just five hours, but it was hectic and extremely crowded.)

Even with that, I'm under the impression the Sanford station is even more space constrained than the Lorton station is. At Sanford, they need to put the coaches on a separate track from the sleepers to platform all the passenger cars.

gprimr1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:04 pm As I remember, the Cardinal once ran with Superliners, so Superliners can fit in the Capital Street tunnel.

That means if Amtrak rebuilds the Baltimore tunnels to Superliner clearance, are there any other height restrictions to prevent a Newark NJ AutoTrain? Platforms wouldn't be an issue since it would be using it's own dedicated station. There is a ton of land near Marion Reach and South Kearny yard that could be used for parking.

Assuming the Fredrick Douglas Tunnel will be built to handle Superliners and double-stack freight (24 feet from rail to caternary)... you have to clear (from WAS up to Newark)...

• DC: US 50 New York Ave NE
• DC: 9th St NE
• DC: Montana Ave NE
• DC: US 1 ALT Bladensburg Rd NE
• DC: US 50 New York Ave NE *AGAIN*
• MD 201 from the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (MD 295).
• A CSX railroad bridge.
• Colombia Park Rd.
• MD 202 Landover Rd
• MD 410 Veterans Pkwy
• US 50 John Hanson Hwy
• I-495 Capital Beltway
• MD 459 Annapolis Rd
• Carter Avenue
• MD 193 Glenn Dale Blvd
• Lanham Severn Rd/9th St
• MD 197 Laurel Bowie Rd
• MD 175 Annapolis Rd
• MD 32 Patuxent Fwy
• MD 174 Reece Rd
• MD 100 Paul T. Pitcher Memorial Hwy
• MD 176 Dorsey Rd
• Stoney Run Rd
• BWI Amtrak station pedestrian bridge
• MD 295/I-195 interchange
• I-195 Metropolitan Blvd
• I-895 (Baltimore Harbor tunnel south section)
• CSX tracks (MARC Camden Line)
• US 1 ALT Washington Blvd
• MARC Halethorpe pedestrian bridge
• Francis Ave
• I-95
• I-695 Baltimore Beltway
• US 1/MD 372 Wilkens Avenue
• S Hilton St
• MD 144 Frederick Ave
• Edmondson Ave
• Lafayette Ave

...and THEN the Fredrick Douglas Tunnel as planned.

You also have to clear the catenary, and I forget our previous conversations about that in other threads about how close that caternary can be w/o affecting people inside. All the cars are 16' 2" from what I can tell, and the minimum IMO would be 18' tall caternary... but I'd be more comfortable with 24' tall caternary.

There is one other consideration: are you going to go diesel all the way up? Because I doubt a train that long and that heavy is going to hit 100 MPH on the NEC... or anywhere period.

There's no reason it couldn't run with electric power from Newark to DC. They do engine changes at DC all the time.

I would say that the idea would be to have it either depart Newark either in the mid-day lul on the NEC between the morning and evening rush hour or after the evening rush hour. After the evening rush hour might make more sense as it would get into Sanford later in the day.

It's just a shame they can't figure out a way to start the Auto Train earlier. Most of the annoying traffic is between NYP and Richmond.