Berkshire Flyer: Pittsfield - New York City Service via Albany

If it's so easy to widen highways and building bypasses and the like in Western Mass, why isn't there an exit on the Pike between Lee and Westfield yet?

Because Mass has a DOT that takes ten years to build anything significant and before they do that they need to study it 2-3 times.

and how many happy berkshire warriors dismounted in pittsfield yesterday?

Safetee wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:49 am and how many happy berkshire warriors dismounted in pittsfield yesterday?

The counts have held steady at right around fifty since it began running. I have no idea on Sunday for the return trip as the crew to NYP signs up a little earlier than I do.

50 is a bit low, but honestly, not as horrible as I feared.
(and folks have to keep in mind, that really the "cost" is just ALB-Pittsfield, the NYP-ALB leg is just a repurposed train).

I hope the 2 years does give Massachusetts the opportunity to market this better. (and NYS still needs to add a Chatham stop in my opinion.)

I would be interested to see just how the 50 breaks down from riders originating at NYP versus Rensselaer. and just to be slightly anal here, it would be nice to go on board and see how many of the 50 are: rabid fans, people actually going just to pittsfield, and then those supposedly targeted folks heading further for the hallowed grounds of lenox, lee etc. for the latter survey i'm swagging 12 frns, 3 pitts, 35 lees etc. and i'm further guessing that most of the frns came from renss.

I suspect you highly overestimate the fans.
On the inaugural run (which is when I'd expect the most fans) my family and I represented 50% of the 6 folks who boarded at Rensselaer (and we spoke with the 4th who I believe was from the Empire State Passenger Rail group and 2 others may have been reporters for the inaugural run).

So I suspect most of the 50 are folks actually going to the Berkshires.

Chatham is mentioned in the Connect plan, and presumably the Lake Shore could stop there too. Could be a good railhead for the area (isn't that train also the only non-stop at Hudson?) heading in each direction - it's a popular part of the world to visit and for second homes. Covers Southern Berkshires, and other places like Hillsdale, the 'fancy' new Catamount... can see it being well used.

cle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:27 am Chatham is mentioned in the Connect plan, and presumably the Lake Shore could stop there too. Could be a good railhead for the area (isn't that train also the only non-stop at Hudson?) heading in each direction - it's a popular part of the world to visit and for second homes. Covers Southern Berkshires, and other places like Hillsdale, the 'fancy' new Catamount... can see it being well used.

It is the Lake Shore Limited, after all. Personally I've wondered why it stops at Schenectady outside of the school year since ALB is only 20 miles away and on the same local bus service.

markhb wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:46 pm It is the Lake Shore Limited, after all. Personally I've wondered why it stops at Schenectady outside of the school year since ALB is only 20 miles away and on the same local bus service.

Compare bus vs train times. To go from Schenectady station to Albany central is 50 minutes by a "BRT" bus which probably has traffic, and you wait up to 40 minutes for it... or you grab the train, 24 minutes later you're on the other side of the Hudson and can grab one of two buses to get back into Albany proper, which only adds 10 minutes (with the down side of waiting for the train).

Or, put it another way, if you're going to NYC you have to wait up to 40 minutes for a "BRT" bus and connect with one of two other buses to get to ALB from SDY... and takes you about 1h11m according to Google. Or jump on a NYC bound train and save 40-ish minutes.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:39 pm

markhb wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:46 pm It is the Lake Shore Limited, after all. Personally I've wondered why it stops at Schenectady outside of the school year since ALB is only 20 miles away and on the same local bus service.

Compare bus vs train times. To go from Schenectady station to Albany central is 50 minutes by a "BRT" bus which probably has traffic, and you wait up to 40 minutes for it... or you grab the train, 24 minutes later you're on the other side of the Hudson and can grab one of two buses to get back into Albany proper, which only adds 10 minutes (with the down side of waiting for the train).

Or, put it another way, if you're going to NYC you have to wait up to 40 minutes for a "BRT" bus and connect with one of two other buses to get to ALB from SDY... and takes you about 1h11m according to Google. Or jump on a NYC bound train and save 40-ish minutes.

Oh, not even bronze BRT,it's like the Montgomery County Flash bus.

I assume the Lake Shore stops at Schenectady not mostly to get people from Schenectady to Albany-Rennselaer but to get people from Schenectady to New York City, Buffalo, Rochester, Chicago, and intermediates. If, what, four or five more minutes tops added to a schedule of 18 hours or so can get passengers on board at Schenectady instead of making them ride 50 minutes on a city bus with their suitcases, that stop probably raises passengers counts and is worthwhile.

Limited is a historical holdover from the days when the Lake Shore Ltd was the fastest NY-Chicago train on the NYC. Now there are planes for people in a hurry between the endpoints, and it's the only train that goes the whole way, so it's more important to serve a few more intermediates than it is to go as fast as possible.

Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:36 am Limited is a historical holdover from the days when the Lake Shore Ltd was the fastest NY-Chicago train on the NYC. Now there are planes for people in a hurry between the endpoints, and it's the only train that goes the whole way, so it's more important to serve a few more intermediates than it is to go as fast as possible.

In 1954, the Lake Shore Limited was train #19. It left Grand Central at 5:15 PM, arriving in Chicago the next day at 11:00 AM. This was not a particularly fast schedule; the Commodore Vanderbilt, train #67, left Grand Central at 4:30 PM, but was scheduled to get to Chicago at 7:30 the next morning. The Tentieth Century Limited, train #25, was even faster, leaving Grand Central at 5 PM and arriving in Chicago at 7:45 AM. None of the three served Boston or the Berkshires in 1954; they were strictly NYC - Chicago trains.

Looking at the Boston - Albany timetable, the fastest train was actually #691, the Beeliner, which left Boston at 6:00 AM and arrived at Albany at 10:15. The more famous New England States, #27, did not stop at Albany, but it did stop at Pittsfield, as did the Beeliner. Interestingly, the Beeliner was faster Boston - Pittsfield (3 hours 8 minutes) than the States (3 hours 25 minutes) even though it made one more stop (Palmer) along the way..

The Beeliner utilized Budd RDC cars (aka DMU), taking advantage of their faster acceleration than push-pull trains. The branding was brilliant and would be excellent to mark fast express or limited service.

Not only that, I believe the Beeliners had only one or two cars and thus got out of a restrictive curve almost as soon as they got into it and could immediately resume track speed; given the number of restrictive curves on the B&A that time saving must have really added up. (I lived in Boston 1956-58, and 27 and 28 were nice long trains, but the longer the train the longer it takes to get all of it around the curve.)