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  • Southwest Chief on the Ground in MO

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1600967  by CLamb
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:22 pm
bostontrainguy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:24 am I wonder if a low-cost solar-powered flashing red strobe light, that can detect an approaching train (or maybe a radio activated one), can be placed on the top of every static crossbuck. Wouldn't cost much per crossing and would be better than nothing.
There's similar equipment for regular stop signs right now. Be better than nothing? Maybe.
Unlike residential path lights and auxiliary stop sign lights railroad crossing signals must be highly reliable. They must be hardened against weather, animals, and vandalism. Imagine a crash occurring because a crossing signal was broken.
 #1600983  by justalurker66
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:15 pmHere is an actual video from the NTSB of the crash scene. It shows that the engine did hit the truck on the front left corner. Although there is considerable damage, it appears that the Genesis actually held up surprisingly well considering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0AGaYsasvw
Thanks for the facts.
 #1601004  by NYCRRson
 
"It appears that the Chief did not start derailing (sp) until 3 - 4 car lengths beyond (sp) the crossing?"

From the "walk around" video released today (6/29) by the NTSB is appears that the wheels on the second axle of the first locomotive are "derailed". It also appears that the wheels on the 1st, 3rd and 4th axle of the first loco are on the rails.

The impact of the loco with the truck carrying "aggregate" (aka really dense heavy stone) could have caused the first truck assembly of the first loco to pitch upwards (first axle going down / second axle lifting up) causing the wheel flanges on the second axle to lift over the rail head and allowing the wheels to derail.

At those speeds the wheels of the second derailed axle would quickly start to rip apart the track structure, jarring spikes and tie plates out of position and causing the rails to start spreading and rolling on their sides. With the kinetic energy of the following loco, baggage car and Superliners the rail and tie structure was literally ripped apart. With no connection between the rails/spikes/ties there was no "railroad track" under the following cars, just rolled over steel rails, ripped out spikes/tie plates and shredded wooden ties.

The destruction of the track structure would have gotten progressively worse going back through the locos/cars. By the time the last cars come to rest the track structure is nothing more that two pieces of rail about 5 feet apart on their sides with no semblance of connecting structure (ties, tie plate, spikes, rail anchors).

It does not appear (from the video currently available) that parts of the dump truck went under the first loco. Appears that the lead loco deflected the truck parts off of the track structure and the sudden impact caused one of the first locomotives axles to derail which initiated the sequence of all the other rail car wheels disassembling the track structure.

The friction between the car wheels on the destroyed track structure and eventually the sides of the rolled over cars against the ballast would cause the train to come to a stop much faster than the train brakes alone would have.

The Final NTSB report should clear all of this up.

RIP to the deceased and a speedy recovery to all the affected.
Last edited by NYCRRson on Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1601006  by west point
 
NYCRRson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:04 pm "It appears that the Chief did not start deraling until 3 - 4 car lengths beyound the crossing?"
I had reached the same conclusions. One additional. What was the first car or loco to derail? could be mid train pulled preceeding over due to tight lock couplers.
 #1601012  by Fishrrman
 
John Perkowski wrote:
"You can bet your bottom dollar NTSB will be looking into why the entire consist fell over."

Tightlock couplers.
They did exactly what they're supposed to do.
They remained locked together, tightly.
Even as they pulled the entire train over on its side.
(J. Albert)
 #1601034  by MattW
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:24 am
John_Perkowski wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:15 am This crossing is protected only by a crossbuck and a stop sign. The Chairwoman of NTSB is not at all happy about that.
You know I have some very sophisticated cheap solar lights around my house. They charge up all day on sunshine and burn all night through. They have motion detectors and come on whenever my dog runs by. They work surprisingly well.

I wonder if a low-cost solar-powered flashing red strobe light, that can detect an approaching train (or maybe a radio activated one), can be placed on the top of every static crossbuck. Wouldn't cost much per crossing and would be better than nothing.
What you're talking about would just end up being no different than the still-numerous crossings that have lights but no gates. As someone above my post points out, railroad hardware has to be hardened and fail-safe. The only other idea I can think of would be some kind of yellow light above a sign that reads "if light is out, assume train is approaching, stop, look, and listen." This same light would go out at the approach of a train. There's a very old crossing in West Virginia that works like this: http://position-light.blogspot.com/2014 ... ve-on.html I could actually see something like this being used at any crossing as a hedge against a non-reported crossing failure. The light would have to be wired in such a way that if any component is non-functional, the light can't show. Ideally, if the light isn't on, a red reflective surface could show, but I can't think of a way it would work without being mechanical which usually isn't good for reliability.
 #1601050  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:50 am Anyone care to "place their bets"?

Maximum Authorized train speed anywhere in the US away from the NE Corridor; 70mph
bostontrainguy wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:07 am You know that's not true, Mr. Norman. What are you quoting?
Mr. Trainguy, "place your bets".

This just seems the next extension of the 1952 mandate of "a speed not to exceed 80mph", which Rulebook took to mean 79mph.

That mandate apparently arose from Naperville
 #1601071  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone - There is now a Wikipedia page concerning Amtrak #4 Mendon, MO derailment June 27:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Miss ... derailment

I had problems finding the location of the wreck searching Google Maps - Chariton County's roads are
identified not by name - the three-digit number is used which in this case was 113 - and was uncertain
if the site was east or west of Mendon - looking at the surrounding fields was no help with some having
no discernible vegetation - I was able to find the #113 crossing by the nearby visible block signals...

From the various videos initially there was not a way to get an accurate car count - the Trains airview
still picture with the entire consist showing the two locomotives, baggage car and seven Superliner
cars (I originally thought there was 8) making a total of eight cars on Amtrak #4 east through MO 6/27.

Has there been any updated reports - 2:00 PM EDT to be exact - about any track or service restoration
and if the Amtrak equipment is still at the site pending the NTSB investigation?

Has there been any news about Amtrak crew members that may have been injured?
I have seen NO mention so far about #4's crew...

The front facing camera on #133 video should be very important in finding out how this accident happened...
MACTRAXX
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