MBTA Bus Fleet Electrification

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:01 pm

octr202 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:22 am Yes, all of the other North American trackless systems have invested in IMC (in-motion charging) trolleybuses rather than scrap their systems.

SEPTA is also going toward battery power.

Not without their fair share of problems: https://whyy.org/articles/septas-cracki ... c-transit/

Atlanta transit converted their trackless trolleys to all GM buses. A managemen person told me later that the transit system did not get the payback from salvage much like the Milwaukee RR. Operating costs were higher as well. So, when MARTA came around they bought the now all bus system.

I was under the impression that they scrapped it (in a month) as they couldn't afford to string new wires for additional service, and there was no source (in country) for new trolleybuses.
Still short sighted.

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:18 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:01 pm

octr202 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:22 am Yes, all of the other North American trackless systems have invested in IMC (in-motion charging) trolleybuses rather than scrap their systems.

SEPTA is also going toward battery power.

Not without their fair share of problems: https://whyy.org/articles/septas-cracki ... c-transit/

It's looking to me that IMC trolleybuses are the way to go.
ABQ should never have gone purely batterybus. They had dedicated lanes , should have put up wires.

Battery buses will be a part of every major system's fleet...at some point. But they're still likely a generation away from a bus that can operate the type of duty cycle either a trolleybus or an internal-combustion powered bus can. They can't handle continuous or near-continuous operation in any weather conditions. This means that prematurely adopting them when alternatives exist means that they've closing the door forever on the IMC option before the full BEB is ready for action.

All of the T's arguments have been centered around the assumption that next-generation IMC trolleybuses would feature all the limitations of the current Neoplan fleet. Frequent bunching, no ability to detour off-wire, etc. Of course, they've also made sure that New Flyer's IMC ETBs never came close to demonstrating here...that would scuttle their augment!

Wow, it sounds like MBTA had a conclusion, and then forced the "data" to meet their conclusion.

Yeah, i think battery trolleybuses are about the only situation where battery vehicles can have transit applications. Closing the door on everything is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; and considering wires and poles being re-installed would be a political nightmare - this would be the end of trolleybuses in Boston.

I love the idea of more diesel buses in the Harvard tunnel. Add sarcasm here.

People forget that batteries have a limited number of cycles and have to be replaced relatively frequently. And lithium supplies are not unlimited, and the giant deposit in Maine is tied up by their anti-mining law.

About bunching. Maybe express buses could stay diesel and battery buses. Let the trolly buses run local. That is what ATL did for a few years. That gave them the ability to change a few routes.
Also they had dispatchers spread out to prevent bunching setting up time splits/

I find it hilarious that one of the T's major arguments for how BEBs (or diesels for now) will improve service is by eliminating bus bunching. I suppose they assume 71/73 riders have never used another high-frequency T bus route...cause trolley wire certainly ain't what causes the 1 bus to become the "2, 3, 4 or 5 bus."

The other sad "selling point" is that they need to get rid of the trolleybuses "because they can't be diverted to run subway shuttles when there's a rapid transit disruption." Yeah, because that's a good way to win over bus riders...

I get the hiatus do to all the construction on Mt. Auburn St. but for long term I still disagree. Has any of the Cities said anything about this?

There's also been discussion revolving around Mass Ave in Cambridge. The City of Cambridge (historically a supporter of retaining the ETB system) has been pushing for dedicated bus and bike lanes. It sounds like the T has convinced the City that somehow (crazy as this sounds) that those can't be done until the ETB overhead is removed. This appears to be how the T finally removed the last stumbling block to municipal opposition.

(The Mass Ave OHW is supported by bracket arms on each side, rather than span wires, but in the long run, even new poles are not that expensive. The expensive part of electrification is the substations and feeder network. The restoration of overhead on Trapelo Road in 2016 was like a rounding error on the street reconstruction project.)

Any review of trolleybus and tram installations in Europe will show that you can fit OHW into damn near any situation, provided there's a will to do it. The T's only will is to get rid of it.

Two words for you Octr202:
Street Running.

Anything that remotely looks like electric on a paved road is bad.

octr202 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:49 am There's also been discussion revolving around Mass Ave in Cambridge. The City of Cambridge (historically a supporter of retaining the ETB system) has been pushing for dedicated bus and bike lanes. It sounds like the T has convinced the City that somehow (crazy as this sounds) that those can't be done until the ETB overhead is removed. This appears to be how the T finally removed the last stumbling block to municipal opposition.

(The Mass Ave OHW is supported by bracket arms on each side, rather than span wires, but in the long run, even new poles are not that expensive. The expensive part of electrification is the substations and feeder network. The restoration of overhead on Trapelo Road in 2016 was like a rounding error on the street reconstruction project.)

Any review of trolleybus and tram installations in Europe will show that you can fit OHW into damn near any situation, provided there's a will to do it. The T's only will is to get rid of it.

If you've read the blog of alon levy
https://pedestrianobservations.com/
, you know that American transportation management are ignorant of what the rest of the world does.