Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

You keep what you can get parts for....

west point wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:31 pm I keep asking the question. How is it that AM-2s have more mileage than -1s but -1s are being scheduled for retirements? If you have a 2018 chevy with 200k miles and exact same model 2014 kept inside only has 100k miles both kept inside fair running condition which would you probably replace?

I know have not found the mileage records that used to be on Amtrak site. Of course there are some of both types that have been banged up with same percentage more AM-1s are probably going to scrapper.

Running up and down the east coast, out to Chicago and New Orleans from NYC every day racks up more miles than the 500 or so miles doing a roundtrip from NYC-WAS.

frequentflyer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:57 am Running up and down the east coast, out to Chicago and New Orleans from NYC every day racks up more miles than the 500 or so miles doing a roundtrip from NYC-WAS.

A NEC round trip DC to Boston would be around 1,000 miles per day. Amfleet 1.
A train running for 24 hours at around 50 mph average speed would travel around 1,200 miles per day. Amfleet 2

Not every Amfleet 2 train runs 24 hours straight, not every Amfleet 1 train is limited to just one round trip. Everything is variable considering the sizes of the fleets and different train routes being ran. Short of being able to read each individual car’s maintenance record keeping score, we will never know.

frequentflyer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:49 pm All of the Amfleet, ones and twos need to retire. Amtrak is having to fabricate their own parts for these rolling museums. If you have to reuse equipment, it would be the Horizon fleet since they are newer. Imagine mothballing these 50 year old cars, better to let them retire and be razor blades, they did their job, and Amtrak got their money's worth out of them.

I've made this point before but worth repeating-- the first Amfleet I's were delivered in 1975. There was heavyweight Pullman equipment in service on A-day in 1971 that was newer then than the Amfleets are now.

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 pm I've made this point before but worth repeating-- the first Amfleet I's were delivered in 1975. There was heavyweight Pullman equipment in service on A-day in 1971 that was newer then than the Amfleets are now.

Does anyone have any photos of these Pullmans in service under Amtrak? Also, is production for these coaches still ongoing or on hold due to lead found in the sink water?

There were definitely heavyweight PRR P-70 Coaches in service from A-Day until delivery of the A-I's during '75. Heavyweight "otherwise" in the Amtrak-era, I think not. Heavyweight on A-Day Eve away from the Corridor, here and there, but the train offs from '67 onward rendered most of such retired.

Someone, dig out Mike Schaefer's "Journey to Amtrak" and flip through looking for heavyweight equipment at "the end".

Well, it depends. Do bags count? You can see some of them in Journey to Amtrak. (Mr. Norman, I know Mike Schaefer contributed some of the writing, but the book is usually listed under the name of the editor, Harold Edmondson.)

Beyond that it gets tricky. Do modernized (flat roof) heavyweights count? Hard for a non-expert like me to spot. I have a vague recollection of reading that GMO ran heavyweight diners or parlors until the end. B&O/C&O might be another candidate.

You can certainly see traditional heavyweights in regular service as late as 1964 or so in Frailey’s Twilight of the Great Trains.

Sou RR kept heavyweight coaches until SOU went to Amtrak. We have heavy weight 1012 and 1013 that were given to Rosevelt museum after then. Sou kept the heavyweights for various charters. Often many different safety patrol charters. They were sometimes used for extra section holiday trains as SOU;s 800 series stainless PS(?) coaches became not worth refurbishing.

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:50 am

frequentflyer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:57 am Running up and down the east coast, out to Chicago and New Orleans from NYC every day racks up more miles than the 500 or so miles doing a roundtrip from NYC-WAS.

A NEC round trip DC to Boston would be around 1,000 miles per day. Amfleet 1.
A train running for 24 hours at around 50 mph average speed would travel around 1,200 miles per day. Amfleet 2

Not every Amfleet 2 train runs 24 hours straight, not every Amfleet 1 train is limited to just one round trip. Everything is variable considering the sizes of the fleets and different train routes being ran. Short of being able to read each individual car’s maintenance record keeping score, we will never know.

Long long ago when I worked for Amtrak as an Assistant Train Dispatcher I used to spend some spare time hacking around in ARROW. One of the few codes I can remember from those days long ago was "DUR" which I assume was Display Unit Record. Entering into ARROW the line DUR 38000 would tell you everything about that car, in this case a Superliner Diner. Information such a repairs, required FRA inspections, and (I think I'm remembering this correctly) mileage on the car among other things. So to find out information on say an Amfleet I or Amfleet II car all you'd need would be a "low friend in a high place" with access to ARROW. Now it's been 25 years since I left Amtrak and whether or not those codes have changed is a good question but as far as I know Amtrak does indeed keep mileage records on it's equipment.

Agree with Mr. Afficionado on two points; "Journey to Amtrak" was authored by Harold Edmondson as a "hired hand" at Kalmbach (they hold the rights).

Also, "pretty sure" GM&O heavyweight Diners entered the Amtrak-era for the period when Amtrak and the roads held "turnkey purchase of service" contracts with one another. However, on November 14, 1971, Amtrak had acquired cars from the roads and "mixed or matched" them at their discretion - often with "unhappy results" regarding mechanical issues.

Fun picture (1975, dome car) and story of Ellerson Station, the short-lived replacement for Richmond Main Street Station on the Newport News line: https://www.trains.com/ctr/railroad-sto ... -richmond/ Amshacks did not have privys out back.

To be fair, the trains also tilted at Rye, NY, on the NEC, for years.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:25 pm There were definitely heavyweight PRR P-70 Coaches in service from A-Day until delivery of the A-I's during '75. Heavyweight "otherwise" in the Amtrak-era, I think not. Heavyweight on A-Day Eve away from the Corridor, here and there, but the train offs from '67 onward rendered most of such retired.

Someone, dig out Mike Schaefer's "Journey to Amtrak" and flip through looking for heavyweight equipment at "the end".

My point wasn't so much that heavyweight equipment went into service with Amtrak. My point was that the Amfleet I's are 46 years old, and a 46-year-old car in 1971 would have a build date in 1925.

In other words-- the Amfleets are the functional equivalents of whatever pre-1930 survivors were still ratting around on A-day on PC, GMO, SOU, etc.

Mr. Ridgefield, the PRR built at Altoona P-70 Coaches through 1929. They were assigned to Amtrak Corridor trains into 1976 when there were enough A-I's on the property to tell PC "they're yours".

Therefore, the youngest P-70 (76-29) was 47 years old. The oldest A-I is now 46yo, and will have been in revenue service longer than any P-70 before its apparent replacement set for 2025.

Regardless of how good of a shape the Amfleet Is are in, it's approaching their retirement. 40 plus something years is an long time for mainline passenger rail rolling stock to be in revenue service. They have served their purpose for a very long time transporting passengers along the East Coast. The Siemens Intercity Trainsets will be a welcoming sight when they enter revenue service on the NEC and other routes in the Northeast.

In the Pacific Northwest, the Cascades have had their issues with the Talgo equipment. I think after the derailment occurred on the original startup date of the bypass, that caused Amtrak, Oregon DOT, and WSDOT to be very apprehensive with keeping the Talgos in service for a very long time. The Siemens trainsets will be great to have on the Cascades as well. It will be great to look at Puget Sound out of those big windows from your Cascades train.

... except that with the new bypass route now in service, you miss the best views of Puget Sound. My first view of Puget Sound was at Steilacoom on a summer morning in 1952, just after sunrise, through the window of the overnight from Portland (I had a window seat on the left) -- the mist was rising above the surface of the sound. I suppose there'll be no more passenger movements via Point Defiance from now on except for charter movements and such.