Post COVID - Passenger Rail

Look what Amtrak has come up with!!!

https://www.amtrak.com/planning-booking ... virus_tab2

Since I have no upcoming trips with Amtrak (not saying "I'm done with them" as some around here might think), but I'm sure they ask about your VAX status.

But as we know, under HIPPA (Health Information Patient Protection Act), no one can ask you to show your documentation.

Of course, being a retired CPA, I lived in a world of "show me"; so when I went to my wine shop that recently lifted their mask requirements if VAXED, I had my CDC card out and ready to flash as I walked in. The manager simply said to me; "Mr. Norman, I can't look at that. Its honor system; that's all we can do".

Using the card as proof is a joke -- there are blank cards available for download on several state and county departments of health websites...

It doesn't take much to create a valid looking card that has someone else's dosage lot and administrator information, and with many states passing laws against vaccine passports and the disclosure of health information to private entities such as employers, it's questionable if cards can really authenticated based on what's entered.

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:06 am Using the card as proof is a joke -- there are blank cards available for download on several state and county departments of health websites...

It doesn't take much to create a valid looking card that has someone else's dosage lot and administrator information, and with many states passing laws against vaccine passports and the disclosure of health information to private entities such as employers, it's questionable if cards can really authenticated based on what's entered.

Possession, use or providing a forged proof of vaccination card is a federal criminal offense punishable by monetary fine and up to five years in federal prison. Many states have or are in the process of enacting similar legislation. It is rather unwise to engage in such misrepresentation and fraud.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:47 am Look what Amtrak has come up with!!!

https://www.amtrak.com/planning-booking ... virus_tab2

Since I have no upcoming trips with Amtrak (not saying "I'm done with them" as some around here might think), but I'm sure they ask about your VAX status.

But as we know, under HIPPA (Health Information Patient Protection Act), no one can ask you to show your documentation.

Of course, being a retired CPA, I lived in a world of "show me"; so when I went to my wine shop that recently lifted their mask requirements if VAXED, I had my CDC card out and ready to flash as I walked in. The manager simply said to me; "Mr. Norman, I can't look at that. Its honor system; that's all we can do".

No such US legislation exists. You are referring to the US federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). Your understanding of the HIPAA federal statute's provisions is incorrect. HIPAA privacy requirements apply only to a health care provider, a health plan and a health care clearinghouse, and their subcontractors. There is no provision in HIPAA that prohibits an entity from requiring documentation such as a proof of vaccination from an individual of that individual's vaccination status. Note that the health information of an individual is not being disclosed by a third party subject to HIPAA, but rather it is being directly disclosed by that individual, to the requestor. Should the individual refuse to provide the requested proof, the requester can refuse service. There may be states that have enacted legislation that prohibits refusal of service for failure to produce proof, but that legislation would not be binding on entities directly engaged in interstate commerce, such as Amtrak, airlines and buses, and likely many other services.

My understanding is that if you as a private business are collecting health information on customers or employees in digital form, its still required to be protected to HIPPA standards.

I know that Boy Scouts were invoking HIPPA as a reason for not collecting summer camp health forms digitally...

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:34 pm My understanding is that if you as a private business are collecting health information on customers or employees in digital form, its still required to be protected to HIPPA standards.

I know that Boy Scouts were invoking HIPPA as a reason for not collecting summer camp health forms digitally...

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

That is my understanding as well. My company has "managed hosting" in which another company can hire us to put their whole setup up on equipment my company provides. Putting it simply: to be PCI, HIPPA, and/or FedRAMP compliant, the customer's server has to have encrypted storage of user data, and encrypted in transit (HTTPS for example). If you're handling credit cards, you must be PCI compliant. If you're handling medical info, HIPPA compliant. If you're the federal government, FedRAMP compliant.

As long as Amtrak has the server setup for it (which given online booking, they got to be PCI compliant at least), HIPPA isn't much of a stretch to comply to.

Thank you Messrs. Brown and Wolf; I will gladly stand corrected regarding my quotation of the HIPPA Act.

All I know. if any party wants documentation I've been VAXED, it's on my person as part of my ID.

Why Binny's Beverage Mart could not ask to see documentation, I'm at a loss to understand. But then, I know some ANTI-VAX types who say "I'll just lie" when asked.

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:06 am Using the card as proof is a joke -- there are blank cards available for download on several state and county departments of health websites...

It doesn't take much to create a valid looking card that has someone else's dosage lot and administrator information, and with many states passing laws against vaccine passports and the disclosure of health information to private entities such as employers, it's questionable if cards can really authenticated based on what's entered.

Interesting thing. In Maryland, immunizations are registered through ImmuNet (a local system). Doctors must (by law) report all immunizations to ImmuNet.

So, if Amtrak wants to verify you got the vaccine, and your state allows such a lookup, they would just need to get some ID info from you, look it up, and verify it on the spot.

New York has a similar system. And I bet the CDC will have a backup system as well that's national.

Fake it, and they go check? And you fail? Well, that's the federal law violation there. You're not going on the train today.

Well, I wasn't going on the train regardless...

I never said it was a good idea, but you know there are people who will do it and never get caught, particularly if the card information is never validated (which most businesses want no part of).

I was horrified at how lax thr CDC card issuing procedures were at my VAX event (sponsored by a School District and administered by a major pharmacy chain). They poked me, gave me the CDC card, and then said "take fifteen" in the Auditorium where a paramedic crew and a doctor were standing by.

"Same song second verse" for VAX-2.

But when I think back to my Yellow WHO card first issued to me during '60 immunizing Yellow Fever and Smallpox to go overseas, and how that card had to be fully prepared and sealed by the Health Department before given to me, no wonder I wss horrified by the absence of authentication "this time around".

While Mr. Wolf noted strong authentication in MD, both fellow Illinoisan Olesen and myself note the laxity that can give rise to the "bad boys".

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 7:20 am I was horrified at how lax thr CDC card issuing procedures were at my VAX event (sponsored by a School District and administered by a major pharmacy chain). They poked me, gave me the CDC card, and then said "take fifteen" in the Auditorium where a paramedic crew and a doctor were standing by.

"Same song second verse" for VAX-2.

But when I think back to my Yellow WHO card first issued to me during '60 immunizing Yellow Fever and Smallpox to go overseas, and how that card had to be fully prepared and sealed by the Health Department before given to me, no wonder I wss horrified by the absence of authentication "this time around".

While Mr. Wolf noted strong authentication in MD, both fellow Illinoisan Olesen and myself note the laxity that can give rise to the "bad boys".

Here's how mine went. First jab: Arrive at the mass vax site at the football stadium at Camden Yards (wish I could of took the MARC, but no weekend service on the Camden Line). Go through the line. Check in at a tent with folks at computers, give ID. Go out to another maze, get hands sanitized. Go through a set a separation lines, get handed a tablet for a questionnaire to be filled out (no, I'm not sick, don't feel sick, haven't been sick, haven't had a vax shot of any type recently, yadda yadda yadda). Go up to the clubhouse level, get sorted over... land at a table with two nurses, a PC, the medical supplies, etc. Hand ID over again, get a few questions answered, chat a bit, get data entered, get shot, go over to a waiting area with "leave at this time" note and my CDC card. Wait with iPhone checking Twitter... done, walk around Baltimore, take Amtrak to home.

Second jab: Drive in (because I got my license the week before). Go straight into the tent, check in, go through the seperation lines and the questionnaire again, go up, hand over ID and CDC card, tappy tappy tappy, get jabbed, get the card back with the note on it, wait wait wait, leave, done, drive home. Slowly become a zombie that even Death Wish can't cure.

Mr. Norman, did you notice if they had put you in a PC to track you?

I don't know and I don't care.

There's that device in your pocket and mine plus the device in my auto that "does the job for them" - whoever "them" may be.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 12:50 pm I don't know and I don't care.

There's that device in your pocket and mine plus the device in my auto that "does the job for them" - whoever "them" may be.

Eh, I could go on a rant about the "microchipping" conspiracy theory... but I already did that on Twitter. Plus it's off topic here.

Main point is: There are ways to verify it.

Heard from NBC's Today Show today: Atlanta airport's TSA recommending folks come in 2 hours before flight time because of record passenger traffic.

Yep, it's back. It's still valid.

Take the train instead.

Record traffic? Must be a really short record book since airline schedules still aren't at 2019 levels yet...

I'm sure TSA is short staffed. That happens when you pay people to stay home... Georgia is paying $365 a week plus that $300 "bonus" from Uncle Chuck and Grannie Nancy. TSA starting pay is only $680 a week. Why work for that extra $15 a week?

That changes come end of June when GA ends the $300 bonus.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk