Amtrak Seating Discussion: Assigned, First-Come, Reserved, Unreserved, Standees

Good idea. I could almost see calling the classes "x inches" based on seat pitch.

It also might make sense to have LD Coach and Corridor Coach (with better names), because there is so much more space, and leg rests, in LD coach. (I remember they used to recognize that on the Night Owl by having one old ex SF coach with, as I recall, more leg room and leg rests set aside as the through coach from Boston to Washington for more comfort and uninterrupted sleep, although they didn't charge or ticket differently for it.) In any case, someone with only NEC or other corridor experience might be more reluctant to ride coach all day (or overnight) than someone who knew they'd get a couple more square feet in LD coach.

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 am There's something to be said about renaming the classes, which are not constant across the system anyway, to something that reflects the actual service.

"Tourist" or "Economy" would be Metra-like seats. Megabus has seats like this and sells out all day long. It would be great for college-oriented routes like Illini. $5 wifi, no streaming.

"Plus" or "Premium" could be today's current coach seats. These seats are enormous and very comfy. They could probably command a premium in price if there were economy seats in a few coaches. This might draw the non-business "I need premium" crowd out of business class and give them a place to laugh and have fun.

"Commerce" could be the new business, which is actually targeted at business. A premium seat, good tray tables, free fast wifi. A quiet waiting room and priority boarding at places like Detroit, where business is currently lumped in with coach in a gross old building.

Time for Amtrak to follow a Red White Blue fare plan CN used in the 1960's. Red discount fares maybe weekends, White normal fares maybe work days, Blue high fares for seasons & holidays. Do a schedule so that the passenger can plan when to travel for how much. Red White & Blue to see America by train.

GWoodle wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 11:27 amTime for Amtrak to follow a Red White Blue fare plan CN used in the 1960's. Red discount fares maybe weekends, White normal fares maybe work days, Blue high fares for seasons & holidays. Do a schedule so that the passenger can plan when to travel for how much. Red White & Blue to see America by train.

Add a Silver fare for Business/Roomette and Gold for First Class/Bedroom and you've hit it on the nose.

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 am"Plus" or "Premium" could be today's current coach seats. These seats are enormous and very comfy.

Not my memory of my last rides in coach seats. But 15 1/2 hours in a coach seat (plus a late arrival making it over 17 hours) might be too much.

The problem with my seat was that the base would not recline. The back could be inclined backwards but the base remained flat which meant I was constantly sliding forward. Propping a pillow under my legs helped, but the pillows slid too. A couple of inches of tilt (similar to my office chair when I lean back or my recliner at home) would have helped. "very comfy" are the furthest two words from my experience in Amtrak coach. It was better than the seat I had on the NICTD South Shore ... but that was a much shorter ride.

Making the current seating a higher value by installing worse seats (a couple rows of city bus level molded benches) seems like a scam. Sure, your seat is uncomfortable - would you like to try a cheaper seat that will cost you more at the chiropractor?

Amtrak currently sells coach tickets based on ticket restrictions. Non refundable after 24 hour fares cost less than refundable 15 days before trip fares cost less than 100% refundable fares. All three classes buy the same seat. Business and first provide better seats (where available).

It makes sense to try to keep the names consistent. It also makes sense to keep the services consistent. A person buying a "Hoosier State/Cardinal" business class seat ending up in a noisy dome in one direction and a regular quiet business class seat the other might not be satisfied with their service. The "Hoosier State" is long gone, but they probably should have put business class elsewhere. A "Dome" class would have been appropriate, but without Dome classes on other trains it would have been an annoyance in the Amtrak ticketing system.

Moving forward: I'd like to have a more comfortable seat with a reclining base on all the long distance trains. If that fits as "business class" or "first class" great. At least it would be an option that would cost less than the most expensive hotel on wheels.

justalurker66 wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 2:11 pm

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 am"Plus" or "Premium" could be today's current coach seats. These seats are enormous and very comfy.

Not my memory of my last rides in coach seats. But 15 1/2 hours in a coach seat (plus a late arrival making it over 17 hours) might be too much.

And that's the problem. Nobody wants to sit anywhere for 15 hours, no matter how good the seat is. I've never been on a plane for more than 13, and I was pretty tired of my mid-grade seat by then. No matter how good the seats are, 15 hours is a real stretch. I have no idea how they did it on El Capitan or City of Miami.

I've done the Palmetto; yeah, that ain't fun, even in "Business" class.

I feel for those people who have to ride all the way from NYC to the Southeast on the Palmetto. I believe that there are Amfleet Is that continue south of DC on the Palmetto. About a decade ago, I rode the Cardinal from NYP-CHI and I rode in an Amfleet II coach. It wasn't overly comfortable but I got through it pretty well.

My two cents.

The standard pitch on all Long Distance cars in coach should be 41.5 inches. That is the number ATSF and UP used for their 48 seaters. That the railroads had generous restrooms, where Amtrak uses airline portapotties, means there'd be on the order of 60 pax per.

The standard pitch on all Amtrak commute cars should be 36 inches. If you have a 60' passenger bay, that gives you 72 seats.

However you name it, just go back to the individual seat parlor car for business class.

Tadman wrote:There's something to be said about renaming the classes, which are not constant across the system anyway, to something that reflects the actual service.

To the best of my knowledge they are ...

FirstClass: Acela & Sleeper
BusinessClass
CoachClass

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The notion of first class vis-a-vis sleepers was pretty much eradicated several years ago. It did get ramped up to: mints on the pillow after turn down; complimentary bottle of wine upon occupying the room; complimentary newspaper [usually a local one] in the morning, complimentary orange juice [in addition to the current complimentary coffee] 6-9 AM; complimentary soft drinks available all day; but not shoe shine, IIRC. All those extras [with the exception of the coffee] were taken away little by little, and then the term "first" went away, as well it should have.

It is still "first class" if they offer nothing better. Unfortunately the classes do not have to be consistent across industries or between providers. A first class bus ticket is still on a bus. It is all relative.

Fortunately Amtrak is fairly consistent with their classes. They don't sell "business class" unless the seats are different than "coach". They don't sell "first class" unless the seats are different than "business" or "coach". What they are missing is offering all classes on all long distance trains.

When I rode the Carolinian to Greensboro from NWK six years ago, I rode in business class and it was an Amfleet II coach. I enjoyed the legroom although the Amfleet IIs are really designed to handle coach passengers heading beyond Staples Mill Road on the long distance trains. Of course, with the retirement of the Amfleets coming, we don't know yet what will replace them on these long daytime corridor trains.

justalurker66 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:57 am It is still "first class" if they offer nothing better. Unfortunately the classes do not have to be consistent across industries or between providers. A first class bus ticket is still on a bus.

Sometimes not even this is consistent. SJ Swedish railway does not consider sleeper to be first class even though it costs much more than coach. They would not let me in their Stockholm select lounge.

Same with Amtrak - I once had business class tickets on Empire to Albany, leaving NYP. They were not going to let me use the metro lounge as I was not Acela or Sleeper. In Chicago, corridor business class gets into the metro lounge.

Business class gets in the LA First Class lounge too but if I remember right not in DC.

justalurker66 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:57 am It is still "first class" if they offer nothing better. Unfortunately the classes do not have to be consistent across industries or between providers. A first class bus ticket is still on a bus. It is all relative.

Fortunately Amtrak is fairly consistent with their classes. They don't sell "business class" unless the seats are different than "coach". They don't sell "first class" unless the seats are different than "business" or "coach". What they are missing is offering all classes on all long distance trains.

"First class" is now used only next to the word "Acela". In my experience , business class seats on NEC Regionals are exactly the same as coach seats. I cannot tell you how many times I have read this: "The only thing consistent at Amtrak is inconsistentency." It is usually applied to Amtrak's delivery of on board services, and the attitude of its on board staff.