Nickel Plate 765 Sept 12-13 Scranton-Binghamton canceled

BR&P wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote: CP could have fostered similar goodwill, but I guess they have nothing to gain from it. They're on the way out, so drumming community support wouldn't be useful to CP.

Then that could hardly be called "dropping the ball", could it!

Why not? Society is more mobile and more connected than ever. Just think about the medium (aka the Internet) we are using to have this conversation.

There is no reason to think that what happens in upstate NY/northern PA couldn't be discussed elsewhere.

So some burg in Manitoba is going to have a negative view of CP because they did not want to run a steam engine in PA?

CP decided it was not practical or prudent to host the steam engine. I'm sure CP has people on staff who have heard of public opinion, good will, and media attention. I have no doubt whatever that there was discussion at CP whether or not to run the trips, and an analysis of what would be involved if they did. They are too big, and too smart, to "drop the ball" as suggested earlier. The fact they are working on a steam program of their own shows they do "get it".

Therefore, the logical conclusion is in this particular case various factors led to a business decision not to do it. Maybe their lawyers did not like the terms of a contract. Maybe their insurance concerns could not be met. Maybe they did not feel comfortable with the reliability of the engine. Only those in corporate CP know what various factors were involved.

Bottom line is, running the business comes first, and the "wheee!" comes last, if at all.

BR&P wrote:So some burg in Manitoba is going to have a negative view of CP because they did not want to run a steam engine in PA?

It would probably be closer. What if a Congresscritter was set to go on the Scranton-Binghamton trip? And while we're on the subject, I used to moderate a political message board 5-8 years ago and can recall a couple of midwestern farmers complaining loudly about CP's service to a couple of grain elevators. The word can get around.

BR&P wrote:I'm sure CP has people on staff who have heard of public opinion, good will, and media attention. I have no doubt whatever that there was discussion at CP whether or not to run the trips, and an analysis of what would be involved if they did. They are too big, and too smart, to "drop the ball" as suggested earlier.

Don't assume that a large corporation automatically attracts ideal employees for all situations. I've seen incompetence and cronyism in a corporate environment firsthand. The cartoon Dilbert also illustrates the foibles that can occur in corporate bureaucracy.

CP may have a good PR team and then again they may not. Perhaps they were overruled by a paranoid bean counter or traffic manager. I doubt we'll ever know... but given the amount of lead time for the excursions, CP should have expressed their disinterest alot sooner.

Matt Langworthy wrote:
Don't assume that a large corporation automatically attracts ideal employees for all situations. I've seen incompetence and cronyism in a corporate environment firsthand. The cartoon Dilbert also illustrates the foibles that can occur in corporate bureaucracy.

Why, I thought they all run smoothly and efficiently. I mean, with a fun and exciting business like railroading, they should be teeming with enthusiastic capable and happy employees from top to bottom, right? At least that's the way it was with Penn Central!

I'm about done here. I'm guessing in 6 months or so, nobody except a few fans will remember the cancelled trips and fewer still will care. If CP gets their own steamer going, the same fans who are crying now will be drooling and standing in line to ride it.

CP declined to participate in something somebody else started and which got shoved down their throat relatively last minute. I'm sure they knew a few folks would be PO'd, and the fact that it still made sense to the to turn it down shows they really were not comfortable with what was asked. Sounds like they are running it like a business.

Go ahead, Matt, I'll give you the last word.

BR&P wrote:So at relatively the last minute, it turns out CP will not be gone from the property after all. Well, from CP's perspective they would be starting from scratch at that point. New contracts would have to be drawn up. Insurance policies would have to be re-written. The insurance company may not know much about CP, and vice versa. Their legal teams would have to reinvent everything, and lawyers do not move fast when handed something with huge potential risk. Plus you're dealing with a company from a foreign country...

Technically, yes, CP is Canadian, but all of their American ops are operated by an American company. In other words, D&H and Soo Line are grounded here in the USA, so it's not like you have to deal with Canada.

But BRP highlights what I've been trying to express to people... IF IF IF... If there was any possibility of this trip running, there were only two parties who could make it happen, and CP simply declined take part in the process. And life goes on...

-otto-

The primary purpose of CP and for that matter any other freight railroad is to provide rail freight service to their customers and earn a profit while doing so. Steam fantrips tie up just about everybody in supervision in some way or another, plus engine and train crews (probably more than one in every case), physical plant like tracks, sidings etc and for what. They probably cost the railroad in overtime and other operating expense and god forbid you have to hold one of these steam trains for a hot freight or IM train, then what? I think too many organizations sell tickets and otherwise promote such trips before all involved (railroads in this case) have given their OK for such an operation. I still side on CP on this one. Don't get me wrong, I love the sight and sound and smell of steam and I remember many trips that I thoroughly enjoyed in years past including a fabulous one on the D & H from Colonie to Montreal way back in I think it was 1973 or so. Some railroads love the positive relations that such trips can make for while other railroads don't want to deal with all the questions problems and yes expenses too. Which is right? I don't think anybody on here is qualified to determine that. It is a question for the railroad involved to decide and not for us. After all the railroads are not in business to please railfans.
Noel Weaver

CP could have fostered similar goodwill, but I guess they have nothing to gain from it. They're on the way out, so drumming community support wouldn't be useful to CP.

Matt answered his own question, but he's entitled to the last word.

Sale of the 282 mile line to NS is now complete.

"Missed it by THAT much!"