• Short Erie lines in NJ

  • Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.

Moderator: blockline4180

  by SPUI
 
Where were the following lines (all listed on http://www3.uakron.edu/archival/ErieLack/iccmaps.htm)?
Penhorn Creek RR
Docks Connecting Railroad (was this the Weehawken Branch north of the Monmouth St Yard?)
New York, Lake Erie, & Western Docks & Improvement Co
Arlington RR
Newark & Hudson RR, and Branch A (these two are probably related to the old and new bridges over the Hackensack west of Croxton)
Erie Terminals RR

Morris & Essex Extension
Lackawanna RR Co of NJ
Hoboken Ferry Co

This is also on that page:
* V3a NJ (THE NEW JERSEY JUNCTION RAILROAD)

Exclusive rights to NYLE and W RR Co., Weehawken Branch, Monmouth St., Jersey City to 13th St. Hoboken to Paris Ave., Weehawken
Does this mean the Erie owned the NJJ between the Monmouth St Yard and the Weehawken Terminal? If so, did the NYC still own the part south of the Monmouth St Yard?
Where was Chester Junction? (apparently it was on the NRRofNJ)
What was Granton Junction a junction between? The NYS&W and the NRRofNJ?

Where exactly did the Paterson & Hudson River end? I've seen a couple old maps showing a short spur into downtown Paterson from the south, with the Paterson & Ramapo to the east. Was this correct, and if so, where was this spur (assumed to be the original P&HR)?

That link shows the NY&GL including the 'Morristown Branch' (Caldwell Branch?) but also including the 'Watchong Railway' from Great Notch to Essex Fells. Is this an error in the listing?

Thanks for any information.
  by ChiefTroll
 
Without seeing those val maps it would be very difficult to define the various railroad properties from memory. But I might be able to give some general info from my time in Hoboken about 35 years ago.

The Penhorn Creek Railroad, IIRC, was the corporate name for the property through the Bergen Archways and the trestle into JC Passenger Terminal.

Docks Connecting Railroad was the Weehawken Branch as shown.

New York, Lake Erie, & Western Docks & Improvement Co was an extension of the Weehawken Branch to the D&H Canal Co. docks in Weehawken, built when the D&H coal boats were floated down the Hudson River from Rondout by Cornell Steamboat Co. When the D&H Canal was shut down in 1899, the Erie picked up some of the coal traffic via Honesdale.

Arlington RR, Newark & Hudson RR, and Branch A are a spaghetti bowl of line relocations around DB Bridge at Snake Hill and the Seaboard Lead to the old Koppers Coke Plant. The Newark Branch and the NY&GL were moved several times between different bridges over the Hackensack River, and I'll be darned if my memory still holds enough of a map to let me tell the story.

Erie Terminals RR was mostly a dream, and IIRC the only part of it ever built was the double track over HX Draw. It was planned to be a fast, low grade route from Croxton to a point past Suffern, probably Newburgh Jct. I think they even acquired land for it, but after 1914 WW I put the clamp on steel production and economics, it went down the drain, except for HX. I do remember that the val map for HX Bridge showed it was part of Erie Terminals RR.

V3a NJ (THE NEW JERSEY JUNCTION RAILROAD)
Exclusive rights to NYLE and W RR Co., Weehawken Branch, Monmouth St., Jersey City to 13th St. Hoboken to Paris Ave., Weehawken -

The Erie did not have ownership interest in the New Jersey Junction Railroad. It was wholly owned by the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad (not the West Shore) since it was built in 1886. The Erie val maps show the value of the exclusive trackage rights on non-owned property.

The only Chester Jct I ever heard of on the EL was on the DL&W side west of Dover. That might be an error in the listing, and it should probably be Granton Jct. That was an interlocking where the NRRNJ and the NYS&W trains could cross over to each others' railroad. East of GR Tower at one time the Erie operated the railroad as four tracks, although two still belonged to the NYS&W. West of Granton Jct neither railroad ran on the other. So Granton Jct was the west end of a joint facility, and a proper boundary for a valuation section.

Paterson Yard was west of the Main Line through Paterson, at a lower elevation. I think the west stub end of the yard was the end of the Paterson and Hudson River, and the line to Ridgewood Jct (beginning at XW Tower) was the Paterson and Ramapo RR. But without seeing the map I would not swear to that.

IIRC, the Watchung Railway (not Watchong) was the Caldwell Branch, Great Notch to Essex Fells. I never heard of a Morristown Branch on the NY&GL, but it might have been tucked away in some odd place. It might have also been either a connection to, or the entire, Morristown and Erie, which I think I remember was once owned by the Erie (but not in my time).

From deeper in the recesses of memory, DL&W property:

Morris & Essex Extension - Washington to Phillipsburg.

Lackawanna RR Co of NJ - The Cutoff, Port Morris Jct to the PA Line.

Hoboken Ferry Co - A pre-railroad prececessor company, acquired by the DL&W to operate the Hoboken Ferries. Included marine properties in Hoboken, Jersey City, Manhattan and Brooklyn.

That all comes from memory, so any corrections are gratefully accepted.

  by SPUI
 
I've actually found the answers to some, thanks to the NY Times archive.

Did the Penhorn Creek go through Bergen Jct back to the mainline near Secaucus?
What's the deal with the Docks Connecting RR vs the NJ Jct RR? What part of the route was the Docks Connecting? Does the old Weehawken Branch alignment along Garden St have anything to do with it?
The NYLE&W D&I Co was the piers at Weehawken, near the Lincoln Tunnel helix, right?
The Arlington RR was apparently the line so NY&GL traffic could cross the Hackensack on the Newark & Hudson. I'm assuming Branch A was the ppposite, latting N&H traffic use the NY&GL over the Hackensack.
Did the Erie Terminals at HX Draw cause a break in the mainline?
The layout in Paterson makes sense with the old maps showing the short spur.
I've seen the Caldwell Branch split into the Caldwell Ry and the Roseland Ry. But the valuation maps are clear to include both.

What's strange is that several NY Times articles mention the Erie Terminals RR as a railroad going north and south from the Edgewater terminal on the NYS&W. Anotther article calls it the Erie Terminal (no s) RR; maybe this one is correct. Though the rest (at least 4) all include the s. Maybe they were both part of the bigger plan.
  by gravelyfan
 
Dan,

The Morristown Branch was a proposed line from Montclair, (connecting to the NY&GL just east of Fullerton Avenue, near where the Montclair DPW is located) to Morristown. Some ROW was acquired, the NY&GL val sheet for this section shows some of the parcels.

I have heard that some evidence of excavation of the tunnel that would have been required to get to Morristown can be seen on the grounds of a school in Montclair.