Possible NJ Transit Fare Increase and Service Cuts

They propose to change the 2 zone bus from $2.35 to $2.55. That indicates the people planning this havent ridden transit in their life.

All the rail amounts are nice round numbers, even though transactions are done at a machine.

But for buses, where NJ Transit is maybe the last major system in the country to operate cash only (no swipe card, smart card, or even tokens), they want people to pay $2.55. Who carries around so many coins? $2.50 would cost the agency a miniscule amount in lost revenue, but the round amount would SAVE MONEY via faster customer transactions and more customer convenience.

Actually since the buses don't provide change i bet they hope peole are just carrying quarters and will end up paying $2.75 and make an extra 20 cents

I probably should not be trying to save NJTransit from itself, but let me try. I would like to hear comments and thoughts on the following idea. If people think that I am wrong, then no harm done, but if what I am proposing makes sense, I encourage you to speak at the public hearings and/or write to NJTransit about it.

I understand that the last Pascack Valley train 1601, 12:45am from Hoboken does not have high ridership. That makes sense, but what is its distribution of ridership during the week? I would guess that Friday's ridership is much higher than the ridership on any other weekday just because it is Friday and people tend to stat late or specifically go out on Fridays. I do not take that train, but I suspect that Friday's ridership is 40-50 people (if you know how much it is, tell me please). It makes sense to keep that train on Fridays just so that people who stay late in the city can come back. Furthermore, I thought that Hoboken being the big party draw for High School students deserves a late departure, so that these young people do not drive home after drinking on Fridays. So the question for you all is could an argument be made for saving the train on Fridays? (Disclaimer: I am not opposed to trying to save the train on all days, I am just thinking that Fridays are easier than any other weekdays.)

Absolutely, Fridays should be treated differently.

What officials also seem not to understand is that eliminating a train can decrease ridership elsewhere.

Say theres a train schedule:
11:30pm
12:00am
12:30am

You get off work at 11:45pm and board the midnight train.

Transit eliminates the 12:30am.

But wait, that was your backup! Once or twice a month you run late, miss the midnight and board the last train.

All it takes is getting stranded once and suddenly you buy a car and you're off NJTransit forever.

Likewise, for events like concerts and stuff, youre much less likely to make the trip if youre worried you have zero options if you miss the last (earlier) train. Thats a roundtrip eliminated

I often wonder myself whether that factor is considered when these decisions are made; how many passengers are on earlier trains who would not be using the train at all if later trains were not available as a fallback? I don't know how that can be quantified other than by a market survey, which isn't cheap (and lack of money Is what's precipitating the problem in the first place), and there's a certain type of mind which holds that anything you can't put a number to can (and should) be disregarded.

ExCon90 wrote:I often wonder myself whether that factor is considered when these decisions are made; how many passengers are on earlier trains who would not be using the train at all if later trains were not available as a fallback? I don't know how that can be quantified other than by a market survey, which isn't cheap (and lack of money Is what's precipitating the problem in the first place), and there's a certain type of mind which holds that anything you can't put a number to can (and should) be disregarded.

Sadly, I dont think it is.

"Give me the ten emptiest vehicles, now cut them" seems to be how it works, with no regard to looking at available alternatives for the passengers or other market forces.

Remember, NJT wants to get as many people off their services as much as possible so they can shut the whole thing down.

Ken S. wrote:Remember, NJT wants to get as many people off their services as much as possible so they can shut the whole thing down.

Wouldn't put it past Ronnie.

But to respond to:

EuroStar wrote:I probably should not be trying to save NJTransit from itself, but let me try. I would like to hear comments and thoughts on the following idea. If people think that I am wrong, then no harm done, but if what I am proposing makes sense, I encourage you to speak at the public hearings and/or write to NJTransit about it.

I understand that the last Pascack Valley train 1601, 12:45am from Hoboken does not have high ridership. That makes sense, but what is its distribution of ridership during the week? I would guess that Friday's ridership is much higher than the ridership on any other weekday just because it is Friday and people tend to stat late or specifically go out on Fridays. I do not take that train, but I suspect that Friday's ridership is 40-50 people (if you know how much it is, tell me please). It makes sense to keep that train on Fridays just so that people who stay late in the city can come back. Furthermore, I thought that Hoboken being the big party draw for High School students deserves a late departure, so that these young people do not drive home after drinking on Fridays. So the question for you all is could an argument be made for saving the train on Fridays? (Disclaimer: I am not opposed to trying to save the train on all days, I am just thinking that Fridays are easier than any other weekdays.)

I agree 100% and being an occasional late night rider on Friday Night coming back from a LENGTHY Dinner which puts me on a 12:40 train I can attest Friday's ridership is more like 100 people in some cases. Saturday Night can be SRO since the crew are too lazy to open up more than 3 cars. (I know Sat is not on the cutting block, at least not yet).

Raise the fare an extra 2% on top of the 9% and keep the trains. All cutting does is set themselves up for more cuts and what they need is expansion. While we hate it and I hate it $20 a month is not breaking my bank and for a majority 80% or more of "commuters" (note I said commuters not people who ride NJT as a lifeline) won't be breaking their banks either. We need more service and most "commuters" would be willing to pay for it if it made their commute faster and the Ontime % were higher.

Hell I use to take the Acela PHL to NYP 3 times a week for a year. That train in the morning was late twice the entire year I took it. (and one of the times it was late was because some A-HOLE decided to jump in front of it)

Do I hate NJT? Yes I do. But I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Are there some great conductors who I enjoy seeing and Station Managers? You betcha! But the lack of brains on the upper management level is so pathetic it reeks havoc on everyone else.

MNRR and LIRR have been expanding at a very good rate post 2009 collapse.

Ken S. wrote:Remember, NJT wants to get as many people off their services as much as possible so they can shut the whole thing down.

Really?!

Why not make these late night trains , peak pricing. Charge more for the gapping services. Really i wish NJT had ever later night trains on weekends, even if it was a premium price.

Steampowered wrote:Why not make these late night trains , peak pricing. Charge more for the gapping services. Really i wish NJT had ever later night trains on weekends, even if it was a premium price.

Why not make the rush hour trains peak pricing? Charge more for express and frequent service.

jamesinclair wrote:

trollyFoamer wrote:NJT buses accept prepurchased tickets. I don't know where else they sell them, but NJT Riverline vending machines sell zone 1, and the Camden Broadway station bus ticket agents sell other zones.
Other than that, and monthly passes, yeah, the buses are cash only.

Unfortunately, only a very limited amount of lines take tickets.

So in New Brunswick, where 5 routes leave from the train station that has 8 fare machines, none of them take tickets (the fare machines dont sell them either). Boarding takes a good 5 minutes as people try and get the fare machine to take their dollar bills and random assortment of coins.

They do sell bus tickets at TVM's for the local bus routes which are purported as "Cash only," but they are so few and far in between you cannot practically make use of them (the ones I know of are at Newark Broad). They should definitely expand this for sure (at least maybe have "authorized merchants" sell NJT tickets like they do with MTA MetroCard at authorized retailers).

jamesinclair wrote: Why not make the rush hour trains peak pricing?

I agree with the concept of off-peak fares. It is supposed to encourage travel on the otherwise less full trains which "lose" money. Traffic clears up in off-peak hours. I think a peak schedule like the one the Port Authority has would be a great fit for Transit targeting the highest ridership based on time of day (6-10am, 4-7pm, 11-9pm on weekends). Keeping fares the same just is another roadblock for off-peak ridership to gain.

Let's hope and pray for the best.

F40 wrote:

jamesinclair wrote: Unfortunately, only a very limited amount of lines take tickets.

So in New Brunswick, where 5 routes leave from the train station that has 8 fare machines, none of them take tickets (the fare machines dont sell them either). Boarding takes a good 5 minutes as people try and get the fare machine to take their dollar bills and random assortment of coins.

They do sell bus tickets at TVM's for the local bus routes which are purported as "Cash only," but they are so few and far in between you cannot practically make use of them (the ones I know of are at Newark Broad). They should definitely expand this for sure (at least maybe have "authorized merchants" sell NJT tickets like they do with MTA MetroCard at authorized retailers).

Station agents at selected rail stations do sell bus tickets/passes (all types). Most NJT garages are open to public and sell tickets during regular business hours (cash only) and local merchants (Commissioned Ticket Agents) along many routes do sell various ticket types.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

F40 wrote:

jamesinclair wrote: Unfortunately, only a very limited amount of lines take tickets.

So in New Brunswick, where 5 routes leave from the train station that has 8 fare machines, none of them take tickets (the fare machines dont sell them either). Boarding takes a good 5 minutes as people try and get the fare machine to take their dollar bills and random assortment of coins.

They do sell bus tickets at TVM's for the local bus routes which are purported as "Cash only," but they are so few and far in between you cannot practically make use of them (the ones I know of are at Newark Broad). They should definitely expand this for sure (at least maybe have "authorized merchants" sell NJT tickets like they do with MTA MetroCard at authorized retailers).

Station agents at selected rail stations do sell bus tickets/passes (all types). Most NJT garages are open to public and sell tickets during regular business hours (cash only) and local merchants (Commissioned Ticket Agents) along many routes do sell various ticket types.

Thanks for this info. Very helpful.

EuroStar wrote:I probably should not be trying to save NJTransit from itself, but let me try. I would like to hear comments and thoughts on the following idea. If people think that I am wrong, then no harm done, but if what I am proposing makes sense, I encourage you to speak at the public hearings and/or write to NJTransit about it.

I understand that the last Pascack Valley train 1601, 12:45am from Hoboken does not have high ridership. That makes sense, but what is its distribution of ridership during the week? I would guess that Friday's ridership is much higher than the ridership on any other weekday just because it is Friday and people tend to stat late or specifically go out on Fridays. I do not take that train, but I suspect that Friday's ridership is 40-50 people (if you know how much it is, tell me please). It makes sense to keep that train on Fridays just so that people who stay late in the city can come back. Furthermore, I thought that Hoboken being the big party draw for High School students deserves a late departure, so that these young people do not drive home after drinking on Fridays. So the question for you all is could an argument be made for saving the train on Fridays? (Disclaimer: I am not opposed to trying to save the train on all days, I am just thinking that Fridays are easier than any other weekdays.)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I see it this way. Train 1601 runs in the early AM from Monday through Friday. It provides the last train of the service day for Sundays through Thursday. Train 2101 runs early AM on Saturday and Sunday, providing the last train of the service day for Fridays and Saturdays. It may be confusing, but I think that's how it works. So if you are out late Friday night, train 2101 will be available as that is not on the list of service cuts.

F40 wrote:I agree with the concept of off-peak fares. It is supposed to encourage travel on the otherwise less full trains which "lose" money.

I have a hunch they decided that off-peak demand was inelastic enough - say, people who do not own cars and must use transit to get around - that they could eliminate the discount and not lose many passengers.

On the M&E, at least, they cleared up the problem of empty off-peak trains by cutting service to hourly.