Photography at M-N stations

Are there any laws or regulations on the books which prohibit photography at Metro-North stations?

Will the new 'no photography' policy being sought by MTA New York City Transit exptend to M-N and LIRR as well?

JD

There is no policy in place at any outlying MN station. The only place you may be asked to move along is at GCT. Do no use flash photography (it blinds the operator) and do not set up a tripod. As long as you are not blocking traffic or making a nusiance of yourself, you should be fine. There is the potential that you may be shooed off a platform for not having a ticket, but those instances are rare.

There is currently no policy extending to the Subway at this time (as far as I know. Photography on PATH has always been prohibited). To speculate on how MN and LIRR would be affected is premature.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:To speculate on how MN and LIRR would be affected is premature.

The reason I asked is that some press reports have indicated that the 'No photos' rule would apply to all MTA agencies. It wouldn't be the first time the media got it wrong.

JD

RailBus63 wrote:Are there any laws or regulations on the books which prohibit photography at Metro-North stations?

Will the new 'no photography' policy being sought by MTA New York City Transit exptend to M-N and LIRR as well?

JD

There is no law against photography per se, but you are likely to be hassled if you try to take photos in GCT. Neil Feldman was hassled about a year ago, and I was hassled trying to snap an ACMU this past fortnight. Also if you are overly conspicuous anywhere, you are likely to be asked a lot of "where are you going"s and "are you OK"s.

The new buzzword for MN photogrphers is caution.

I was hassled by an employee who literally held me, and radioed the MTAPD, and a National Guard Trooper. They checked my ID, and one cop said to the others that I was clearly a railfan, and the others backed away from me, but I told them on my disappointment, and also letting the woman working the stationmasters office at GCT know of it, and I would call the head of media to which I didn't. MN employees said to me at last falls Open House at Croton Harmon that GCT is not the place, but at other spots on MN, there is no problem in taking photos. Whether at GCT, or other areas on MTA property, be as discrete as possible. Do not so called it hang out, but take pictures, and as well be a commuter, or act as one when doing it.

Thanks for the info. I don't plan on doing any photography at GCT, buit I would like to get out along the Hudson and Harlem Lines.

I don't know about others, but I'm not planning any railfan trips to NYC or Boston until the political conventions are over with - everyone is too much 'on edge' right now in those cities, and I don't need to lose precious hours on my trip. Hopefully we will make it past the conventions without anything happening on the rails.

JD

Taking pictures of Metro North, just stay on public property. a MNCR station is NOT public property but railroad property with public acces for commuters.
There are plenty of spots allong the Hudson to stand free and clear and get good shots.

A railroad station is a public area, however you are not allowed to loiter without having a ticket. But do yourself a favor, don't take photos. Even on a public street, you are opening yourself up to a confrontation with the police. They can't arrest you for taking the photos but if they decide to, you will be arrested for something else once the confrontation begins, ie they tell you to move along and you refuse. You will then be arrested for failure to comply with a reasonable request of a police officer (Obstructing Governmental Adminstration or simply, a Disorderly Conduct. It's the officer's call) They win, you lose, you go to jail.

UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:A railroad station is a public area, however you are not allowed to loiter without having a ticket.

Just curious - what is the law or regulation that states that a person is not allowed to enter a railroad platform without a ticket? Is this posted?

But do yourself a favor, don't take photos. Even on a public street, you are opening yourself up to a confrontation with the police. They can't arrest you for taking the photos but if they decide to, you will be arrested for something else once the confrontation begins, ie they tell you to move along and you refuse. You will then be arrested for failure to comply with a reasonable request of a police officer (Obstructing Governmental Adminstration or simply, a Disorderly Conduct. It's the officer's call) They win, you lose, you go to jail.

With all due respect, I don't agree with your view. What you've painted is a worst-case scenario. A lot of this has to do with common sense. I don't recommend rail photography in the Boston and NYC areas around the conventions, nor would I take out the camera if there was a terror warning specifically mentioning railroads. As far as 'confrontations' are concerned, patience and respect will go a long ways towards preventing a simple request from law enforcement from degenerating into a confrontation. I've been questioned by authorities about my photography since 9/11, and I've always responded politely and have provided ID when requested. It hasn't happened yet, but if an officer asks me to leave a public place and I feel I shouldn't have to, I would not make a scene about it - I would leave and follow up later with the appropriate parties.

Bottom line, there is nothing inherently dangerous about railfan photography, and I refuse to allow paranoid fears - or worse, individuals on a power trip - to curtail the enjoyment of my hobby. We are in big trouble as a country if we allow those fears to result in governmental actions that take our individual liberties away. We need to protect those liberties, and one does not have to be hauled off in handcuffs to do so.

JD

I agree with you about not being confrontational with a police officer. Under no circumstances should anyone do anything like that. What I am trying to say is that nowadays there are enough overzealous police officers who will arrest you as quick as you can blink your eye. Believe me, without getting into detail, I know what I am talking about.

I'm not sure what your experience has been - however, I'm not aware of any circumstances where it is illegal to engage in photography of buses and trains from a public street or park (stations and other railroad property are another matter).

A helpful reference is 'The Photographer's Right' - check the following link. All railfan photographers should carry this in their camera bags:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Don't let a few overzealous cops and security types frighten you. We need to stand up for our personal liberties.

JD

UpperHarlemLine- I strongly disagree with your point of view. Police do not just throw people in jail "for fun." First of all, to process someone for arrest takes a lot of paperwork and busywork. They are not going to go through the time and trouble of all that just to drag you off the streets for taking photos. Police are not god-like. They are not immune from rules and regulations too, and do not want to be exposed to wrongful arrest lawsuits and the like. To think otherwise is ignorant. We may get harassed, talked to, questioned, chased away... but you'll only get arrested if you are breaking the law.

NO ONE CAN STOP YOU FROM TAKING A PHOTO ON A PUBLIC STREET, ON PUBLIC PROPERTY. The most that will happen is that an officer will ask you what you are doing and will most likely be satisfied with your explanation. If he's not, he'll just ask you to move along AND YOU COME BACK AND TAKE YOUR PHOTO ANOTHER TIME. Happened to me in the Bronx last Friday. I was near High Bridge, on a public street, and the NYPD rolled through asking what I was doing... asked for ID, had a little polite conversation. Told me it makes me appears suspicious to be taking photos of trains, and I just smiled and nodded and they went on their merry way. NYS Parks Dept police rolled through twice and only waved at me. I tooks my's photos and no ones bothered me.

Take all the photos you want. YOU may be the one to help spot and report trouble first!

-otto-

It's been said in several posts here to stay on public property while taking photos. Dutch even pointed out that the stations are railroad property with public access. I don't understand the difference. If it was a privately owned railroad that would be one thing, but Metro-North is a state owned railroad, which I take to mean publicly owned. So if the railroad is publicly owned, doesn't that make its property public property?

No it is NOT public property. The state also owns prisons - that does not make the grounds of the prisons public property. Likewise, the state also owns universities. Their campuses, unless specifically posted are not public property. Most campuses have a "limited" public access only when attending a program/event on that campus.

Just because the government owns land, it does not give the public an automatic right to traverse them.

Another perfect example of that is the NYC watershed regions located throughout the State. You need an access pass to even walk through those wooded areas. Violators may be subject to arrest for trespass without an access permit. (No I am not talking about fishing or hunting on them).

So your logic of "If the government owns it, it must be public proeperty" is completely flawed.

Just for everyone's enlightenment, here are the definitions of a public place in the New York State Penal Law, section 240.00, sub 1.

1. "Public place" means a place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access, and includes, but is not limited to, highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds, and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence.

Sub 2 defines a transportation facility

2. "Transportation facility" means any conveyance, premises or place used for or in connection with public passenger transportation, whether by air, railroad, motor vehicle or any other method. It includes aircraft, watercraft, railroad cars, buses, school buses as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and traffic law, and air, boat, railroad and bus terminals and stations and all appurtenances thereto.

So you see, a railroad station, platform or train for that matter is a public place as defined by the NYS Penal Law. It's no different than a public street.